Opinions on potential first 145.022

[Rwc1313]

Hi, I’m a new member here and I’m looking for some opinions on what I believe to be an early 80’s 145.022 I’m looking at. Before I begin, I’ve read a humorous parody thread (no sarcasm, I appreciate the humor) of this sort of post so if this is not the place please let me know and I’ll delete.

I’ve settled on a Speedmaster because I appreciate the design and history and how it’s retained the same general design/size/shape throughout the years. I’ve settled on the late 145.022 era because I generally appreciate “vintage” although I think this model might barely make it in to that group compared to earlier models. I have not ruled out the 3590. Of course these models also fall in to my more modest budget range.

I’ve found what I believe to be an early 80’s 145.022 for sale at a relatively well known dealer. It was posted with a box and papers however the warranty card is not correct for the watch because it is dated for 2011. Not sure how the dealer didn’t catch that but it doesn’t really matter to me. The rep I spoke to said it was purchased from a client who was the original owner and is all original except for the leather watch band. Unfortunately the bracelet that should come on this model is not included so I will eventually have to source one. The dial and hands look to be in very good shape. Personally I like this era with what I believe is referred to as the tall S and long R. I’m not sure if this increases the desirability much if at all but I appreciate it. The case is described in very good condition, only receiving a “light cleaning” however I am concerned a bit by the polishing. The hesalite is supposed to be original and is well used, I know these are replaceable but not sure how valuable it is to have an original crystal to the watch in better condition. I can see in the add photos that the bottom pusher button looks a bit loose but I am assuming this will be fixed during service when the watch is reassembled. The watch is being serviced by the shop and will be under their warranty for 12 months.

The shop is not local to me so I have not been able to view the watch in person, only the listing photos and photos the rep sent me of it disassembled for the service. They were asking $3500 (plus tax/shipping) so I jumped on it. That said, it won’t ship until mid next week and the rep was very clear with me that I could return it for any reason within 10 days of receipt. So I feel it is a relatively safe transaction, I think they’ll even pay return shipping. Anyways, I’d like to attach the photos I have of it and see what you guys think. Should I continue on with the deal or are their red flags being shown where I should just cancel it before bothering with shipping? I will have to eventually find a 1171 or 1450 bracelet for it, which is fine. Of course I can wait for it to get here and post some better photos of it in my own hands and then decide whether or not to keep it. At first I thought it was a good deal for a semi vintage Speedmaster, but maybe not and I might have jumped the gun. I appreciate any help/opinions on the matter.

Edited: Jul 11, 2021

 

[Servius]

Hello, welcome on OF

I really like the dial, but I’d need to see other pics of the case to assess its condition. Other members might have better eyes than I do for that game.

The price sounds very reasonable to me, even without a bracelet.

Special mention to the seller, I’ve never thought of using a delicately polished nail to hide a serial number. All those filthy fingers near a watch movement…

 

[Rwc1313]

Servius

Hello, welcome on OF

I really like the dial, but I’d need to see other pics of the case to assess its condition. Other members might have better eyes than I do for that game.

The price sounds very reasonable to me, even without a bracelet.

Special mention to the seller, I’ve never thought of using a delicately polished nail to hide a serial number. All those filthy fingers near a watch movement…

Yea, unfortunately those were the best pictures I was able to get. I might just have to wait and see when it gets here. With the return policy there shouldn't be much risk. I expressed my concern to her about the polish and she reassured me they had only very lightly "cleaned" it with a machine to remove grime. The case back looks a little more polished than that but I am obviously no expert. I snatched it up under the impression that they got it on trade in and maybe did not pay too close attention to exactly when it was produced, assuming the warranty card the owner brought in was accurate. That could be wishful thinking but I guess every once in a while one slips through the cracks.

In regards to the bracelet, would this forum be the best place to source the correct one? From what I've read it could either be the 1171/633 or 1450 and the 1171 is still available to be ordered from AD's. How much more desirable is it to get the 1171 that was actually manufactured in the same era as the watch as compared to a newly manufactured version available now?

 

[gbesq]

Based upon the limited photos, I think that the asking price is reasonable. Nothing more, nothing less. If you look at the Speedmaster 101 price chart, the value quoted for a 1978 Speedy (which is as close as the chart gets to an 80’s watch) in good condition is $3,500, head only. I wouldn’t expect a more recent 145.022 to be worth more. As for the bracelet, many collectors would want a period correct bracelet and end links to make the watch as original as possible, but neither the vintage 1171 or 1450 come cheap.

 

[Rwc1313]

gbesq

Based upon the limited photos, I think that the asking price is reasonable. Nothing more, nothing less. If you look at the Speedmaster 101 price chart, the value quoted for a 1978 Speedy (which is as close as the chart gets to an 80’s watch) in good condition is $3,500, head only. I wouldn’t expect a more recent 145.022 to be worth more. As for the bracelet, many collectors would want a period correct bracelet and end links to make the watch as original as possible, but neither the vintage 1171 or 1450 come cheap.

Do you know if there are any obvious differences between an original 1171 made back then and a factory replacement 1171 available from Omega now?

EDIT: With a bit of searching I have answered my question and the answer in short is - Yes.

Edited: Jul 11, 2021

 

[gbesq]

Rwc1313

Do you know if there are any obvious differences between an original 1171 made back then and a factory replacement 1171 available from Omega now?

EDIT: With a bit of searching I have answered my question and the answer in short is - Yes.

Yes, correct. Sorry to just be getting back to you now. My opinion is that if you can acquire the watch AND an original 1171/633 bracelet in comparable condition for $4,500 or less, then I would go ahead. Otherwise, I would look around. Keep in mind that with a bit of searching you should be able to find a very nice 3590.50 for less than that. Just like the 145.022, the 3590.50 has the 861 movement and a tritium dial and hands. What the 3590.50 has that the 145.022 doesn’t is a much better bracelet in the 1479/812.

 

[Rwc1313]

gbesq

Yes, correct. Sorry to just be getting back to you now. My opinion is that if you can acquire the watch AND an original 1171/633 bracelet in comparable condition for $4,500 or less, then I would go ahead. Otherwise, I would look around. Keep in mind that with a bit of searching you should be able to find a very nice 3590.50 for less than that. Just like the 145.022, the 3590.50 has the 861 movement and a tritium dial and hands. What the 3590.50 has that the 145.022 doesn’t is a much better bracelet in the 1479/812.

From the small selection I’ve seen around would you say $400 - $800 is the going rate for a 1171 bracelet? Both of which could be correct for this watch I believe.

Edited: Jul 11, 2021

 

[gbesq]

Rwc1313

From the small selection I’ve seen around would you say $400 - $800 is the going rate for a 1171 bracelet? Both of which could be correct for this watch I believe.

I think, although I’m not sure, that Omega still sells the 1171/1 for somewhere in the $400 range. The original 1171 and a pair of 633 end links will be more expensive. The problem that I have with both the 1171 and the 1171/1 is the build quality. Both are prone to rattle and stretch. The hollow end links aren’t great either. Others may differ, but that’s my opinion.

 

[BenBagbag]

Everything about the watch in question looks genuine. The only thing that gets me - and I wouldn't mention it if not for you saying you have a no questions asked return policy - is that it's been pretty heavily polished on all sides of the watch. Really dulled it's facets if my eyes aren't tricking me.

 

[Rwc1313]

BenBagbag

Everything about the watch in question looks genuine. The only thing that gets me - and I wouldn't mention it if not for you saying you have a no questions asked return policy - is that it's been pretty heavily polished on all sides of the watch. Really dulled it's facets if my eyes aren't tricking me.

That’s what’s really getting me. I guess we’ll find out either way. It will be a shame if it is overly polished since I believe it was untouched until the shop decided to go ahead and “clean” it.

 

[padders]

gbesq

I think, although I’m not sure, that Omega still sells the 1171/1 for somewhere in the $400 range. The original 1171 and a pair of 633 end links will be more expensive. The problem that I have with both the 1171 and the 1171/1 is the build quality. Both are prone to rattle and stretch. The hollow end links aren’t great either. Others may differ, but that’s my opinion.

The current bracelet is not the 1171/1 it’s the 1171/633. The 1171/1 was last produced about 10 years ago. There is no practical difference though, both are lightweight push pin efforts. There have been 3 main 1171 versions, it started on the 70s with screw links, a 1171/1 would indeed be correct for an 1980s watch, but you won’t find a new one easily any more.

 

[Risto]

The case looks polished and I'd pass.
I enjoy my vintage Speedmasters on Uncleseiko bracelets. Wears just as good.

 

[w154]

I’ve got an 1171/1 that I think is new old stock and is surplus to requirements. Could do with a clean though and it comes with no endlinks.

 

[Rwc1313]

w154

I’ve got an 1171/1 that I think is new old stock and is surplus to requirements. Could do with a clean though and it comes with no endlinks.

pm'd

 

[Clelow]

Be sure and get the 10 day right of return in writing as opposed to merely a verbal representation by the sales rep; probably not necessary but just in case.

 

[Rwc1313]

Recieved the watch a few hours ago. As it is my first speedmaster purchase I don't have much to compare it to based on others I've held but based on photos I've seen online of others I'm not sure I'm going to hang out to this one. The facets aren't completely dulled but it has obviously been polished, most recently right before I purchased it, as was disclosed by the dealer as cleaning. What bothers me most though is it appears to my eye that the brushed surfaces were "rebrushed" using what i assume was some sort of scotch bright pad. Probably common practice but in between the lugs it doesn't look consistent. I took some photos but it seemed hard to capture. Other than that it looks ok, the omega symbol is missing on the crystal but I'm not sure when they started using that, I've seen others without it. There is a small piece of dust on the dial, and most questionable is the chrono seconds hand seems to move around the dial in a kind of "jerky" fashion. I figured it would be a smooth sweep all the way around, or maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me. I understand this is on the lower end of the collectors spectrum so I wasn't expecting a NOS watch head when opening the box, but based on what else I've seen and from the response here maybe I should send this one back.

Edited: Jul 14, 2021

 

[Rwc1313]

I tried to capture the brushing in the lugs as best as I could, as well as the edges on the facets. You can see the dust to the right of the 3 on the subdial as well.

Edited: Jul 14, 2021