Opinions on CCCP purchases

Bob Neville · Dec 27, 2021

I decided to roll the dice on a few CCCP watches from a Russian seller with perfect feedback on eBay. I was comfortable with what I paid assuming that these are basically authentic Soviet Union Cold War era watches, but that there are maybe some "frankenwatch" elements. I like the way each of them looks, and they all have the "Made in CCCP" or "Ministry of Defense" marking on the face, and from the research I have done the innards look legit.
I would welcome anyone's opinions on authenticity or if you see anything that makes you think there's some lack of authenticity. Thanks!

Walrus · Dec 27, 2021

I find that first one especially interesting. Looks real cool. I wish I could help you but I have a hard enough time with text I can actually read. I’m going to forward the pics to someone I know who is deeper into Russian watches (if you don’t mind) but there is a Russian seller who pops up here from time to time I’ve talked to he is very nice (though blunt) hopefully he sees your post he would be a good resource. I can see why you took a shot cool specimens.

hronists · Dec 28, 2021

First one looks like mumbai special. decorated movement? guilloche dial?

upd. found something similar and I stand corrected. Movement and case still looks fishy tho.

SpeedyPhill · Dec 28, 2021

Don't forget about Russian spaceflight chronographs
https://omegaforums.net/threads/hidden-gems-from-the-russian-space-photo-archives.65152/page-5

S.H. · Dec 28, 2021

I think the komandirskie zakaz is a franken (wrong case).

Here is a better one as an example :
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373256341856

Don't rush and buy this one specifically, there are a lot of them. And beware, most Vostok components are compatible so lots of them are franken/strange upgrades/field repairs.

Bob Neville · Dec 28, 2021

S.H.
I think the komandirskie zakaz is a franken (wrong case).

Here is a better one as an example :
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373256341856

Don't rush and buy this one specifically, there are a lot of them. And beware, most Vostok components are compatible so lots of them are franken/strange upgrades/field repairs.

Could very well be, but for what I paid all-in including shipping & taxes for the 3, I took into account that one or all may be frankens, and I'm okay with that assuming the components are authentic. I think the components are authentic Cold War Soviet Union because they came from a seller in Russia and they show signs of wear, and I would tend to think that there's just not the money in these to fake them. I like the look of each of them regardless.
I'm curious though, what is leading you to the conclusion that the Vostok Commander is a franken? I'm not debating your assessment, I just would like to learn more. Mine has a different bezel than your picture, and the case on mine doesn't have the guard around the crown - are those tip-offs to these not being authentic Vostok Commander components? The case on mine has the threaded stem fixed to the case, and the crown is screw-down. After unscrewing the crown, the first position is for winding, and the second is for setting the time.
Thanks for your expertise on this!

Bob Neville · Dec 28, 2021

...I'm also now noticing that in your picture the case blends differently into the lugs than on the one I purchased - mine has a smaller blend-radius into the lugs which are not tangent to the case diameter, while the one you have pictured has more of just a tangential transition into the lugs.

S.H. · Dec 28, 2021

Bob Neville
I would tend to think that there's just not the money in these to fake them.

Just don't assume this, I have even seen Chinese komandirskie knock offs. 😲 Also, fake dials do exist.

As I said, a lot of components are swappable between different Vostok models (even modern ones): it is quite easy to create frankens. The safest bet for a newbie is to get the old Vostok catalogs check what you buy. But not all were pictured on catalogs, so... In any case be prepared to look at 10th or 100th of watches (for the collectible ones) before seeing a really good one.

Browsing the Russian Watches subforum on Watchuseek is a very good starting point, usually. Lots of knowledge about FSU watches there.

For the Komandirskie/Amphibian line, a few different bezels existed and are acceptable, depending on the model. They are interchangeable.

Bob Neville · Dec 28, 2021

S.H.
Just don't assume this, I have even seen Chinese komandirskie knock offs. 😲 Also, fake dials do exist.

As I said, a lot of components are swappable between different Vostok models (even modern ones): it is quite easy to create frankens. The safest bet for a newbie is to get the old Vostok catalogs check what you buy. But not all were pictured on catalogs, so... In any case be prepared to look at 10th or 100th of watches (for the collectible ones) before seeing a really good one.

Browsing the Russian Watches subforum on Watchuseek is a very good starting point, usually. Lots of knowledge about FSU watches there.

For the Komandirskie/Amphibian line, a few different bezels existed and are acceptable, depending on the model. They are interchangeable.

Thanks for sharing your expertise. I will just have to resign myself to the fact that I will never know for sure what percentage of the components and construction are original authentic USSR, which is pretty-much what was going through my mind when I decided that what the seller was willing to accept intersected with what I was willing to pay. While I agree that it's more likely than not that it's a frankenwatch, and I'm not disagreeing with you that some components may be from outside sources, I still tend to think that the probability of most if not all of the individual components just being old worn & recycled CCCP-made and locally-available to the seller is more likely than them being new imported Chinese with scratches, dings, stains, and oxidation added to make them look old and used. If the intent was to fake an authentic CCCP watch with Chinese components that are fake-aged then I would assume they would use the correct case, and they would select a rarer model that would net the seller more than about $20 after shipping and eBay fees.
I do appreciate you taking the time to reply and share your thoughts though!

eugeneandresson · Dec 28, 2021

(sorry, very unhelpful daft humor, but I thought it fitting, and no I no share such opinion as never own Russian watch)

Opinions on CCCP purchases

Bob Neville

Walrus

hronists

SpeedyPhill

S.H.

Bob Neville

Bob Neville

S.H.

Bob Neville

eugeneandresson

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