Opinions needed on Constellation 168.005

[kalin91]

Hi all,

Can anyone advice if any major flaws with this Connie?
I notice that the bracelet is not original, but the crown seems to be original, the case does not look overpolished and the dial looks preserved (probably that is not the original color, but fine for me).

Also, has anyone seen recently how were these priced? I could not find any good reference on past auctions on ebay (they were rather in worse condition or not gold cased).

Many thanks!

 

[gatorcpa]

The case top looks to be in very nice shape, but it is hard to tell with those pictures. Not really in focus.

The patina on the dial seems strange. We usually don’t see heavy orange patina like that on watches produced in the mid-1960’s. Omega switched from natural lacquers that yellow with age to synthetic lacquer that doesn’t yellow about that time. Could there be a gold dial there? Not likely, since it is 14K and not 18K gold.

That Fix-o-flex bracelet is sure to have caused damage to the inside of the softer gold lugs. Be careful about that.

Another oddity on this watch is the case reference. Non-date versions were Ref. 167.005, not 168.005. However, the actual casebacks were interchangeable at the factory and Omega US had a separate division for corporate awards, so anything is possible.

Dome dialed Constellations from this period tend to bring less than the more iconic pie-pan dials. The market had fallen a little bit on these. I would bid on this as a frankenwatch, put together from interchangeable parts, even though there is a possibility that it is all original. Too many odd things about this one.

I’d say that if you can get it for under $2K, you’ll be OK. Budget a extra few hundred dollars for a proper service.

Good luck with the hunt.
gatorcpa

 

[kalin91]

gatorcpa

The case top looks to be in very nice shape, but it is hard to tell with those pictures. Not really in focus.

The patina on the dial seems strange. We usually don’t see heavy orange patina like that on watches produced in the mid-1960’s. Omega switched from natural lacquers that yellow with age to synthetic lacquer that doesn’t yellow about that time. Could there be a gold dial there? Not likely, since it is 14K and not 18K gold.

That Fix-o-flex bracelet is sure to have caused damage to the inside of the softer gold lugs. Be careful about that.

Another oddity on this watch is the case reference. Non-date versions were Ref. 167.005, not 168.005. However, the actual casebacks were interchangeable at the factory and Omega US had a separate division for corporate awards, so anything is possible.

Dome dialed Constellations from this period tend to bring less than the more iconic pie-pan dials. The market had fallen a little bit on these. I would bid on this as a frankenwatch, put together from interchangeable parts, even though there is a possibility that it is all original. Too many odd things about this one.

I’d say that if you can get it for under $2K, you’ll be OK. Budget a extra few hundred dollars for a proper service.

Good luck with the hunt.
gatorcpa

Thanks a lot, @gatorcpa - really helpful and comprehensive advice!
Indeed, I don't think I have seen another Connie with such patina color while browsing. But at the same time the dial and letters look fine when I compare them to other Connies.

(PS: I really enjoyed the Swamp Kings netflix show, although not exactly an American football fan!)

 

[gatorcpa]

kalin91

(PS: I really enjoyed the Swamp Kings netflix show, although not exactly an American football fan!)

Don’t have Netflix, so I never saw the show. However, the Gators are not “Kings” of any Swamp this year.
gatorcpa

 

[Peemacgee]

gatorcpa

The case top looks to be in very nice shape, but it is hard to tell with those pictures. Not really in focus.

Agreed -lovely looking case.

gatorcpa

The patina on the dial seems strange. We usually don’t see heavy orange patina like that on watches produced in the mid-1960’s. Omega switched from natural lacquers that yellow with age to synthetic lacquer that doesn’t yellow about that time. Could there be a gold dial there? Not likely, since it is 14K and not 18K gold.

Not a deluxe dial (normal onyx inserts.)
Looks 'beyond' patination - a dial intended to look like a deluxe perhaps?
14k doglegs did come as .006s if my (non deluxe) pie pan caseback is anything to go by (see pic at end)

gatorcpa

Another oddity on this watch is the case reference. Non-date versions were Ref. 167.005, not 168.005. However, the actual casebacks were interchangeable at the factory and Omega US had a separate division for corporate awards, so anything is possible.

It's odd that it does only have one reference - mine is late 23,xxx - so perhaps Omega did indeed stop producing 14k deluxe versions by the time this was produced?
Hence the colouration?

However, I wouldn't be at all happy having a 168.005 caseback on a 167.005 /movt/dial, no matter how it got there.

gatorcpa

Dome dialed Constellations from this period tend to bring less than the more iconic pie-pan dials. The market had fallen a little bit on these. I would bid on this as a frankenwatch, put together from interchangeable parts, even though there is a possibility that it is all original. Too many odd things about this one.

I’d say that if you can get it for under $2K, you’ll be OK. Budget a extra few hundred dollars for a proper service.

Agree with treating it as a 'put together' watch and value it accordingly.

 

[kalin91]

Peemacgee

Agreed -lovely looking case.



Not a deluxe dial (normal onyx inserts.)
Looks 'beyond' patination - a dial intended to look like a deluxe perhaps?
14k doglegs did come as .006s if my (non deluxe) pie pan caseback is anything to go by (see pic at end)



It's odd that it does only have one reference - mine is late 23,xxx - so perhaps Omega did indeed stop producing 14k deluxe versions by the time this was produced?
Hence the colouration?

However, I wouldn't be at all happy having a 168.005 caseback on a 167.005 /movt/dial, no matter how it got there.



Agree with treating it as a 'put together' watch and value it accordingly.

Thanks for the advice! Can you post a photo of the dial of yours just for reference (rather educational for myself)?

Also, if this was not considered franken/put together, would the pricing go above USD 2k?

 

[Peemacgee]

kalin91

Thanks for the advice! Can you post a photo of the dial of yours just for reference (rather educational for myself)?

Also, if this was not considered franken/put together, would the pricing go above USD 2k?

As @gatorcpa said, dome dials are less desirable than pie-pans but on the other hand, no-date Constellations have become more desirable than date versions.

Under normal circumstances, with this case and what looks to be a good looking dial with onyx inserts, if this was 'all correct' I think this would comfortably be a $2,000+ watch.
More if you really like dome dials (as I do).

However, it has a mismatched case back (regardless of why) and a substantial engraving on the back, so you need to consider value accordingly if you intend to proceed.

My pie pan dial (this photo really doesn't do justice to the sharpness for the lugs)

 

[kalin91]

Peemacgee

As @gatorcpa said, dome dials are less desirable than pie-pans but on the other hand, no-date Constellations have become more desirable than date versions.

Under normal circumstances, with this case and what looks to be a good looking dial with onyx inserts, if this was 'all correct' I think this would comfortably be a $2,000+ watch.
More if you really like dome dials (as I do).

However, it has a mismatched case back (regardless of why) and a substantial engraving on the back, so you need to consider value accordingly if you intend to proceed.

My pie pan dial (this photo really doesn't do justice to the sharpness for the lugs)

Thanks for the photo - very clean look!
I am not a big fan of those engravings, but I think I can live with it (as it is on the backside).
I am quite new to this and I realise that learning to spot a good watch (to distinguish it from frankens, redials, etc.) and learning how to evaluate it are two separate things. Hence, I needed some guidance also on the pricing for which I appreciate both of your input.

 

[Peemacgee]

As an additional note

we need better photos - preferably high resolution ones that we can open to view magnified.

Having looked again, I've a feeling that the dial doesn't have onyx inserts but painted inserts instead.

This would definitely reduce the value of the watch further.

Please post better pics for comment.

 

[kalin91]

Here are some other photos from the listing - not sure why these can't be zoomed in..

 

[Peemacgee]

The pics still aren't great but I would say that the dial almost certainly has painted inserts and not onyx.
The inserts are flat topped and have no depth.

This in itself shouldn't stop you buying the watch if you like it -just be aware that it affects its collectibility and therefore the value.

some close-ups of the indices

 

[kalin91]

Just saw that on the recommendations thread another Connie has been posted with similar color of the dial.
Attaching photo for reference.

 

[Peemacgee]

kalin91

Just saw that on the recommendations thread another Connie has been posted with similar color of the dial.
Attaching photo for reference.

This is a 14382 -a deluxe Constellation with a solid gold dial.
Note the wide flat onyx inserts. ( with depth)

 

[kalin91]

Peemacgee

This is a 14382 -a deluxe Constellation with a solid gold dial.
Note the wide flat onyx inserts. ( with depth)

Oh, didn't see in the description that the dial is solid gold.
Yes, I see that the onyx inserts are somehow different.

 

[Peemacgee]

kalin91

Oh, didn't see in the description that the dial is solid gold.
Yes, I see that the onyx inserts are somehow different.

If the pics were better you would also see a light vertical graining to the dial.

You can see it better here on mine.