I bought this 1969 Omega Speedmaster pre-moon 861 with obviously a refinished tropical colored dial. The DNN bezel is nicely aged and the 1039 bracelet with 516 end links is in very good condition. The best part is I got the watch for $2k. Hopefully, I can find a nice step dial soon.

 

nice and congrats. original dial might be $10k. good luck.

 

Thats a long road you have chosen! Thank you for sharing this, as I can often learn more thinking about this sort of thing that a perfect example.

The bezel is dodgy looking, I dont think it is a period correct bezel. The TACHYMETRE letters look too short, and the number font looks to short too. The depth of printing looks wrong. It could be an aftermarket insert. Here is a correct DN90 drop serif bezel example:



The hands will need attention or replacing, they have been aged I think. That dial is quite a shocker - because if it was black, then it might fool many at first glance.

I think I recognise that colour, so I can guess where the dial was made. Here is another example:



Scary huh?

So on to the OP watch, it all depends on the case and movement - if those can be overhauled then a step dial will cost around $400 or more for an attractive patina example, and then its sorting out the hands and bezel.

Like I said a long road, but I only know because I have walked it myself.

Best of luck!

 

Scary tropical dial...

 

Indeed it is.

But the most scary thing is what would we make of it if it were black?

The printing is very good

 

Printing looks good indeed but as per vintage redone rolex dial a good loupe will do the trick...At least hope that...

 

You can buy 2 nice original 69's for $10k.

 

Thanks for the comments. I got the watch specifically for the bracelet which is in much better condition than the one installed on my 321 speedy. I can use the not so good 1039 bracelet for my SM 300 165.024. For now i will use this watch as my regular beater.

 

For a watch that is so specifically designed to deceive a prospective buyer, I'd want pretty damn good pictures of the movement before bidding on it.

AND good pictures of the bracelet, too.

 

Have you got a return option? If the bracelet is good, you're probably ok, but if any more parts turn out to be fake, what have you really got for $2k?

 

So if a PM response to this is more appropriate, so as not to help the fakers, can someone point out to me the tells? From looking at it to me, the tells are more obvious on the OP's watch than on the one that @Spacefruit posted.

On the OP it looks like lume plot length, no drop-r, and the edges of the step as well as the registers are too smooth, like they've been painted over. Which I assume is exactly the case, and then re-printed. On the second one though it's a bit less obvious to me, unless there never was a Tiffany dialed Speedy, or if the number range on the known movements doesn't match. Honestly just curious to avoid getting burned in the future.

 

I checked the 861 movement before buying it and its in very good condition. The chronograph function works properly. I have been using it the past two days and the watch is keeping good time. The gentleman who owned it told me that the old dial was getting boring. He saw pictures of Speedmasters with tropical dials on the internet and fell in love with it. He asked around for a dial refinisher and found someone who was able to refinish based on the dial color he wanted.

 

love is blind indeed.

 

Picture of my 321 with the better bracelet installed. Below is the original one that I will use for the SM 300

The 861 with a moon bracelet now beside the 321. Picture of the 861 movement picture to follow.

 

The primary tell on any "good" reconditioned dial is that it looks slightly wrong. In this case like a cake that has been over iced.

Note the OP dial the paint looks thick, and the step is fat, without a sharp edge. The subdial dishes are also undefined at the edges. The lume is awful, you never see natural plots looking like that. I cannot be sure, but I suspect the op dial lacks concentric rings on the sub dials.

The T position is incorrect for the 145.022 - just an indication that there is so much more to see.

The body colour is quite unnatural, and the first alarm.

In general the quality of the work is not up to the Swiss mass produced dials - recon dials are one offs by definition, and the human element seems to show through.

As to differences in font, and other details, it's a simple matter to compare to known images on the net.

Mind you the dial refinishers have access to these images too, and still they cannot get it 100% right to those of us lucky enough to have seen 100's of genuine dials.

I like giving a new lease of life to old dials, but I take a rubbish dial and do something crazy, so it is never thought of as original.

 

Good idea Spacefruit. I will hv the dial redone to a reverse panda.

 

Thanks @Spacefruit - good to see that my instincts were correct about the registers and the paint. How about on your Tiffany signed one? It just seemed much harder to tell to my novice eye than the OP's. Obviously if there never was a Tiffany signed Speedmaster dial, then that would be a major giveaway, but I am not certain of this. I know there were Meister signed ones, but I can't recall seeing a Tiffany signed one before.

 

There are Tiffany ones - The origin is unconfirmed, and the one I have (a different one) has an extract to USA but not to Tiffany. (In fact I made the font for the brown one by looking at this one).

They do fetch a premium - HQMilton (two? years ago) sold a 145.022 for $10,000 within days of posting, at a time when this reference sold for $4000. But he has customers...

I bought mine, a 105.012 in USA from a pawn shop. I think it unlikely a pawn shop (specializing in musical instruments) would have the motivation and ability to fake it. I have seen more 105.012's with Tiffany than others.

I think perhaps we should call a roll call....