Omega Speedmaster 145.022 69ST (or thereabouts)

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I seek the help of the professional folk here with my watch. I recently purchased this whilst in Bangkok as I liked the look of it and, I’ll be honest, it was a steal.
The first things that folk on the forum have commented on is the lack of stepped dial. Being a 69ST it should have one (my 71ST does) although the dial has far more patina than that of my 71, so I perhaps wrongly assumed it may be older ?
It does have T SWISS T so I can safely assume it is not a service dial.
The hands seem to be commensurate with the age of the watch and the lume has decayed as one would expect.
The crystal still carries the etched logo.
The next issue is the lack of a DON bezel although Moonwatch Only does indicate that 69ST watches left the factory with several different bezels, so I think I can assume that mine having a “Dot close to 70” bezel and a “narrow C” in Tachymetre means it can feasibly be the original.
Looking at the caseback both from the outside and within confirms the 145 022 69ST issue. Try he movement is a Caliber 861 and is stamped this.
The serial number is 2960**** and puts the assembly and dispatch sometime in 1970.
The crown seems correct.
Strap is a 1171 with 633 end-links.
So, with a bit of reading, it seems the 69ST has so many variables as well as assembly and delivery dates, some pre-moon case backs still being delivered as late as 1973.
Could ( and I stress, COULD) this be a older movement ASSEMBLED with a later dial and delivered l
So, my question to the collection of very educated folk on this forum is this:
I see this watch as being “honest” in its appearance. All the signs (to me anyway) seem to indicate that it left the factory like this. If it is a frankenwatch Speedy then I’m surprised it all looks like it “fits” so well.

If the stepped dial WAS replaced for a later dial, can anyone indicate a later (dome) dial that has aged in this manner ? My 71ST has not discoloured at all.

I’m no expert but I am a collector and a fan of Omega Speedmasters, so please don’t shoot me down here.

This is just a supposition that this watch MAY have left Omega this way and with the varied history of the 69ST I’m thinking this could be possible.

Yes, it doesn’t have a DON bezel or a stepped dial but I’m just putting this out there …….

I shall now brace for the “hailstorm” of replies ….
 
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Not possibly original IMO. The watch has clearly been tampered with. A 29M movement, if it is even for a Speedmaster, would have come with a stepped dial and a DON bezel, absolutely no question. The bracelet is a later version, and also not original.
 
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Not possibly original IMO. The watch has clearly been tampered with. A 29M movement, if it is even for a Speedmaster, would have come with a stepped dial and a DON bezel, absolutely no question. The bracelet is a later version, and also not original.
So are you saying the Moonwatch Only book is wrong ? You should let them know, I’m sure they’d be mortified to know ….
 
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G Garp
So are you saying the Moonwatch Only book is wrong ? You should let them know, I’m sure they’d be mortified to know ….

Sorry, what are you referring to exactly? If you are talking about the bezel, the transition came much later than 29M, around 30.5M.
 
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So in your learned opinion it’s a collection of bits in the shape of a Speedmaster.
I drive a 1973 Dodge Challenger - in the 1970’s Chrysler used parts from both Dodge and Plymouth when making their cars - the variations on a theme are immense.
 
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Your watch may have replaced parts from a service done 40 or 50 years ago... So the patina would be OK, even if the watch is not fully original.

Not sure what you are trying to achieve here frankly.
 
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G Garp
So in your learned opinion it’s a collection of bits in the shape of a Speedmaster.
I drive a 1973 Dodge Challenger - in the 1970’s Chrysler used parts from both Dodge and Plymouth when making their cars - the variations on a theme are immense.

Apparently you're not happy with my opinion.

Your watch may have replaced parts from a service done 40 or 50 years ago... So the patina would be OK, even if the watch is not fully original.

The replacement parts are probably all consistent with late 70s.
 
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Your watch may have replaced parts from a service done 40 or 50 years ago... So the patina would be OK, even if the watch is not fully original.

Not sure what you are trying to achieve here frankly.
Well your answer seems plausible. I just know from reading several sources that the variation with the 69ST are very large - I was just wondering if it was a “variant”.
thank you for your reply.
 
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Apparently you're not happy with my opinion.



The replacement parts are probably all consistent with late 70s.
I totally respect your opinion. Apologies if the reply implied otherwise
 
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Well, a lone variant unseen by long time collectors is sometime a variant, more often a watch with replaced parts. Occam's razor...

It is quite easy to swap parts in the speedmaster series, and they were just tools back then. A deteriorated dial may have been replaced by whatever was available at some point.
 
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Thank you. Makes sense. With the “bones” of a 69 ST, would you think it worthwhile to source the dial and bezel to “complete” it, or just enjoy as is ?
 
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For $3k or less I might be tempted. I would not pay like it is an original watch, though.
 
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The bezel, dial and bracelet are absolutely not original.
Yes the-69 has a range of parts that are correct, particularly bezels and casebacks but there are known cut off periods with serial numbers.
Yours should have a DON bezel, step dial and pre moon caseback.

Incidentally the 29,6xxxxx serials commonly exhibit topicalisation and although sought after now, it’s very plausible that in the 70’s the owner didn’t like the fact his nice watches dial had turned brown and so had it swapped for a nice new black one. At the same time it was only a few quid more for a new bezel to replace the marked one that was on there so why not go for a nice spruce up.
 
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The bezel, dial and bracelet are absolutely not original.
Yes the-69 has a range of parts that are correct, particularly bezels and casebacks but there are known cut off periods with serial numbers.
Yours should have a DON bezel, step dial and pre moon caseback.

Incidentally the 29,6xxxxx serials commonly exhibit topicalisation and although sought after now, it’s very plausible that in the 70’s the owner didn’t like the fact his nice watches dial had turned brown and so had it swapped for a nice new black one. At the same time it was only a few quid more for a new bezel to replace the marked one that was on there so why not go for a nice spruce up.


Conversely, the seller in Bangkok may have needed a nice brown dial, DON bezel and original bracelet and became whole by selling on this frankenized example.


Who knows??
 
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For reference, this is what the original dial could have looked like. An 145.022-69 with serial 2960xxxxx.
 
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Conversely, the seller in Bangkok may have needed a nice brown dial, DON bezel and original bracelet and became whole by selling on this frankenized example.


Who knows??

Good shout.
 
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Conversely, the seller in Bangkok may have needed a nice brown dial, DON bezel and original bracelet and became whole by selling on this frankenized example.

Could be true. Interesting thought! However, wouldn't it make more sense in that case to keep the corresponding movement as well? I reckon pretty much everyone in the market to pay a premium for a chocolate Speedy will know and check the movement number too.