Omega Constellation 168.010 Black Dial

Waltesefalcon · May 26, 2022

I've come to this discussion late, but I'll add my say. To me the watch is in fair to good condition, and definitely worth owning, even though it's not prefect. The 'Meister' adds nothing to the value. Connies are not Seamasters nor Speedmasters, they are pure class, and this means that damage to a dial is damage to a dial.

Other than it needing a service this looks like a solid, honest watch. If you want a black dial Connie, and like the price, buy it.

iamvr · May 26, 2022

I leave it up to the OP to reveal the terms of the trade. I just want to diffuse any implicit assumptions that I’m flipping the watch that I bought from @Shabbaz at a reasonable price at an inflated price to rip off a noob.

The OP, despite his low post count, is a very experienced vintage watch collector. Constellations are just not his area of expertise hence his asking the forum.

I’m interested in one if his watches and asked whether he was open for partial trades. I showed him a few watches that I was considering selling. Not surprising, this black beauty was the pick. The agreed trade-in value is actually lower than my full cost base acquiring the watch in the first place. So no shady backdoor noob rip-off going on 😉.

TheGreekPhysique · May 26, 2022

Peemacgee
because some watches (e.g. Speedmasters) with retailers stamps are less common and some folks value that rarity.

Constellations with retailers stamps fortunately don't suffer from this kind of hyperbole and so there is little or no premium to a Connie with a retailers mark (except perhaps Tiffany of course, if such a thing exists) unless you buy into the hype.

Forgive me I don't intend to be argumentative at all but I am not sure I follow. In the first statement you admitted that some models with retailer stamps are less common and folks value that rarity but then proceed to state that its hyperbole. What is exaggerated with this line of thinking? Isn't a constellation with a retailer stamp, be it Tiffany or others, objectively more rare? If so I don't know if its fair to say "buy into the hype." I for one am particularly fascinated as a collector with the specific segment regarding rarity and don't necessarily see anything wrong with that.

Again I don't mean the above statements to be argumentative or harsh in any manner. Unfortunately reading text can come across very differently than intended so please do not take it like that. They are genuine statements and questions as I view myself a student and am always trying to learn. You are obviously VERY knowledgeable in constellations and, rightfully so, your opinion on these models is held to high regard.

Thanks,
Greek

Peemacgee · May 26, 2022

TheGreekPhysique
Forgive me I don't intend to be argumentative at all but I am not sure I follow. In the first statement you admitted that some models with retailer stamps are less common and folks value that rarity but then proceed to state that its hyperbole. What is exaggerated with this line of thinking? Isn't a constellation with a retailer stamp, be it Tiffany or others, objectively more rare? If so I don't know if its fair to say "buy into the hype." I for one am particularly fascinated as a collector with the specific segment regarding rarity and don't necessarily see anything wrong with that.

Again I don't mean the above statements to be argumentative or harsh in any manner. Unfortunately reading text can come across very differently than intended so please do not take it like that. They are genuine statements and questions as I view myself a student and am always trying to learn. You are obviously VERY knowledgeable in constellations and, rightfully so, your opinion on these models is held to high regard.

Thanks,
Greek

no offence taken and happy to explain my comments @TheGreekPhysique

We are discussing the value of a black-dialled, double-signed 168.010 Constellation and what I said was that:

"'Double-signed' dials i.e. with a retailers stamp, are only valued by a certain small cohort of the collectors' fraternity but are peddled by sellers as a premium addition because some watches (e.g. Speedmasters) with retailers stamps are less common and some folks value that rarity."

but that

"Constellations with retailers stamps fortunately don't suffer from this kind of hyperbole and so there is little or no premium to a Connie with a retailers mark (except perhaps Tiffany of course, if such a thing exists) unless you buy into the hype."

Certain (to be fair, usually high-end) retailer's marks have become regarded as desirable by some - usually those wishing to differentiate their watch from a run-of-the-mill ordinary version of the same watch.

To me it's no different to someone putting a British Steel logo on the watch dial (or General Motors if you like) or a picture of the Emir of Bahrain - each of which would be equally rare (uncommon) but to my mind spoils an otherwise carefully considered watch-dial design with text on the dial that the manufacturers never intended to be there when it left the factory. (or at least when it was designed)

The reason the marks are on there in the first place was to:
i) promote the retailer
ii) if a high end retailer, for the owner to show everyone they got their watch from said retailer (as if owning an Omega wasn't enough)

Some collector somewhere decided that they wanted a vintage watch with a makers mark on it (and were willing to pay more to have it) and sellers jumped on the chance to ask a premium for what is essentially a non-original design dial.

I'm not suggesting that folks shouldn't want what they want and if you like double-signed dials that great but on the whole (and thankfully IMHO) Constellation collectors are pleasingly conservative (and as @Waltesefalcon says, Connies are "pure class" just as they are) and generally eschew the hype of double-signed dials along with, might I add, with calling patinated dials 'tropical'.

I hope that explains what I meant

TheGreekPhysique · May 26, 2022

Peemacgee
no offence taken and happy to explain my comments @TheGreekPhysique

We are discussing the value of a black-dialled, double-signed 168.010 Constellation and what I said was that:

"'Double-signed' dials i.e. with a retailers stamp, are only valued by a certain small cohort of the collectors' fraternity but are peddled by sellers as a premium addition because some watches (e.g. Speedmasters) with retailers stamps are less common and some folks value that rarity."

but that

"Constellations with retailers stamps fortunately don't suffer from this kind of hyperbole and so there is little or no premium to a Connie with a retailers mark (except perhaps Tiffany of course, if such a thing exists) unless you buy into the hype."

Certain (to be fair, usually high-end) retailer's marks have become regarded as desirable by some - usually those wishing to differentiate their watch from a run-of-the-mill ordinary version of the same watch.

To me it's no different to someone putting a British Steel logo on the watch dial (or General Motors if you like) or a picture of the Emir of Bahrain - each of which would be equally rare (uncommon) but to my mind spoils an otherwise carefully considered watch-dial design with text on the dial that the manufacturers never intended to be there when it left the factory. (or at least when it was designed)

The reason the marks are on there in the first place was to:
i) promote the retailer
ii) if a high end retailer, for the owner to show everyone they got their watch from said retailer (as if owning an Omega wasn't enough)

Some collector somewhere decided that they wanted a vintage watch with a makers mark on it (and were willing to pay more to have it) and sellers jumped on the chance to ask a premium for what is essentially a non-original design dial.

I'm not suggesting that folks shouldn't want what they want and if you like double-signed dials that great but on the whole (and thankfully IMHO) Constellation collectors are pleasingly conservative (and as @Waltesefalcon says, Connies are "pure class" just as they are) and generally eschew the hype of double-signed dials along with, might I add, with calling patinated dials 'tropical'.

I hope that explains what I meant

Makes complete sense and I get what you are coming from. From a design standpoint I agree with you 100% that it detracts from the overall appearance of the watch as its an additionally line of text that was not the initial conception of the watches overall design.

My interest in the double-signed dials comes 100% from having something objectively more rare and 0% from showing wealth. Those who know me, including the members who have now met me, will probably attest that I couldn't give two shits about showing money. For 1) watch collecting is not about money 2) is one of the most detestable traits in my opinion a human can have and 3) there is no money to show anyways.

My pockets arent limitless but what I often enjoy the most in this hobby is finding objectively and relatively rare watches in the price bracket that I am able to afford to collect in.

Finally, I couldn't agree with you more. I wasn't into constellations initially. I just loved the design of the seamasters but as the years have gone on tastes mature and I have really gotten into them recently. As you said, they are pure class.

Waltesefalcon · May 26, 2022

I look at double signed dials much like I do engravings, most detract from the watch for me, while a very small percentage will acutely add some value to me. "Meister" adds no value to me, however, if I found a nice Accutron, or Hamilton from the late 60s and signed "Cadillac" or "GM" I'd be willing to pay a small premium because that'd go beautifully with my 68 Cadilliac. So, I think the gist here is that double signed dials are a niche, and that to most collectors it adds nothing and may even detract from the watch, but to the right collector... who knows what they'd pay?

cristos71 · May 26, 2022

Peemacgee
no offence taken and happy to explain my comments @TheGreekPhysique

We are discussing the value of a black-dialled, double-signed 168.010 Constellation and what I said was that:

"'Double-signed' dials i.e. with a retailers stamp, are only valued by a certain small cohort of the collectors' fraternity but are peddled by sellers as a premium addition because some watches (e.g. Speedmasters) with retailers stamps are less common and some folks value that rarity."

but that

"Constellations with retailers stamps fortunately don't suffer from this kind of hyperbole and so there is little or no premium to a Connie with a retailers mark (except perhaps Tiffany of course, if such a thing exists) unless you buy into the hype."

Certain (to be fair, usually high-end) retailer's marks have become regarded as desirable by some - usually those wishing to differentiate their watch from a run-of-the-mill ordinary version of the same watch.

To me it's no different to someone putting a British Steel logo on the watch dial (or General Motors if you like) or a picture of the Emir of Bahrain - each of which would be equally rare (uncommon) but to my mind spoils an otherwise carefully considered watch-dial design with text on the dial that the manufacturers never intended to be there when it left the factory. (or at least when it was designed)

The reason the marks are on there in the first place was to:
i) promote the retailer
ii) if a high end retailer, for the owner to show everyone they got their watch from said retailer (as if owning an Omega wasn't enough)

Some collector somewhere decided that they wanted a vintage watch with a makers mark on it (and were willing to pay more to have it) and sellers jumped on the chance to ask a premium for what is essentially a non-original design dial.

I'm not suggesting that folks shouldn't want what they want and if you like double-signed dials that great but on the whole (and thankfully IMHO) Constellation collectors are pleasingly conservative (and as @Waltesefalcon says, Connies are "pure class" just as they are) and generally eschew the hype of double-signed dials along with, might I add, with calling patinated dials 'tropical'.

I hope that explains what I meant

Personally if I had the choice between two equal condition Constellations, one with and one without a retailer’s logo, I’d choose the one without. I certainly wouldn’t pay any more for a Meister or Turler or whatever dial.

ConElPueblo · May 27, 2022

I share the assessment re. value of double-signed dials that @Peemacgee put forth. If I specifically collected black dial Constellations and I already had a 168.010 without a dealer mark, this one would be more interesting than one missing it, all things being equal. If I collected double-signed Omegas, this one would also be interesting, but would I want to pay the premium for the black dial? I don't know.

Here's to beautiful dials in mediocre cases 👍

janice&fred · Aug 7, 2022

iamvr
As biased as I am I’d go for the euphemism “fair” which would still be fairly accurate imo

I would go for "excellent" myself. We are not talking about a commonly found watch. Try to find another similar example to compare. For me "mediocre" or "fair" would be a barely passable example.

Ravineman · Aug 8, 2022

Its very hard to have a collection of vintage watches that are in outstanding condition. And the ones that do have a collection of perfect vintage watches are just making it harder for everyone else.

And yes, we know who you are !!!!

BrunoCodispoti · Aug 9, 2022

Beautiful watch and dial 😎

Omega Constellation 168.010 Black Dial

Waltesefalcon

iamvr

TheGreekPhysique

Peemacgee

TheGreekPhysique

Waltesefalcon

cristos71

ConElPueblo

janice&fred

Ravineman

BrunoCodispoti

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