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  1. g-boac Mar 2, 2013

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    The 321 movement is iconic and its application is synonymous to the Omega brand - I'd hope to see them continuing producing parts as has been discussed in a separate thread, or better yet, reissuing the movement. For example, either a commemorative edition marking the 50th anniversary of the first lunar landing, or simply as part of their product portfolio. Steven Urquhart said that the long term vision for Omega are 100% coaxial calibres by 2012, and 100% in-house calibres by 2013, with ONE exception - the Speedmaster. And my proposal is that if Omega's portfolio is to include a manual calibre, and the purpose of this calibre is to commemorate their heritage of being the first watch worn on the moon, then they should make it THE honest-to-goodness actual watch and movement that went to the moon. And not a second-generation derivative.

    If others would welcome the c321 movement back, I urge you to send a quick note to Omega - or better yet, a snail mail letter - respectfully requesting that the c321 movement be returned to production and brought back to the Speedmaster Professional line.

    Along with the dot-over-90 bezel ;)

    [email protected]

    Mr. Stephen Urquhart
    Rue Stämpfli 96
    CH - 2500 Bienne 4
    SWITZERLAND

    cheers,
    Mark
     
  2. dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Mar 2, 2013

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    I actually agree with this entirely, the Speedmaster Pro will always exist, the fact that its now a low end, entry priced model in Omega's lineup is a little sad given its place as Omega's flagship product for much of the 70s 80s and 90s.

    A new, slightly decorated version of the Cal 321 in the Pro, with an applied Omega symbol dial would be an amazing gesture that would truly resonate with Speedmaster fans.
     
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  3. g-boac Mar 2, 2013

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    Absolutely. Even if they did nothing else, the current 3570.50.00 should have an applied Omega symbol. But beyond this, they should reissue the Speedmaster in its true original calibre, design, and construction.

    dsio hit the nail on the head that the Speedmaster is THE flagship product for Omega - no other watch brand can, or would ever be the first watch worn on the moon. Ever. Would love to see a c321 Speedy with the applied logo, dot over 90 bezel, classic caseback, and a vintage Omega symbol on the crown.

    This would upgrade the product, and the flagship and hallmark of Omega's brand.

    best,
    Mark
     
  4. CanberraOmega Rabbitohs and Whisky Supporter Mar 2, 2013

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    OR
    They could completely screw it up, ala the new pie pan Connie
     
  5. dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Mar 2, 2013

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    I don't think that would ever happen with the Speedmaster, its gone so many decades with respectful changes, they wouldn't go back on that now.
     
  6. MSNWatch Vintage Omega Aficionado Staff Member Mar 2, 2013

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    And if they did which I doubt, it will be expensive - perhaps MSRP of $10k for a steel version.
     
  7. dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Mar 2, 2013

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    I don't know that it would go that high, but it would definitely go up. Thing is years ago the 7750 based Omega chronographs were all cheaper than the Speedmaster Pro and the 33x3 chronos were about level pegging. Now its the value option, and has been without an update since the rhodium plating change was made.

    Keeping in mind the tooling still exists and belongs to Swatch Group, and has been developed upon further in the last few decades, its not out of the question really. The whole move to Cal 861 was done out of ease and cost of service and manufacture, as was the move to Cal 100x series movements in that era, and Omega is trying to move away from that value over quality and engineering ethos in the last 10 years.
     
  8. MSNWatch Vintage Omega Aficionado Staff Member Mar 2, 2013

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    Do we know if the tooling still exists? Plus it will have to be updated and modernized. If the recreated straight lug speedmaster with the 861 derivative lists for over $6k then 10k for a recreated 321 is in the right ballpark - plus as you pointed out it is the flagship.
     
  9. cicindela Steve @ ΩF Staff Member Mar 2, 2013

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    Correct.

    In many ways I believe Omega has been respectful. There are many reasons not to make the same product again. Can you imagine the problems with counterfeit "vintage" pieces using substituted modified parts from the newly reissued parts. Movement parts, OK, replacement hands OK, pushers OK,.....But cases, dials and bezels?..Absolutely not! In my view that would be disrespectful. For those that would cite the recent FOIS, note that all of these parts were made to be distinguishable from their former counterparts.

    It's like going back in time, do you really want to be young again? OK, so maybe that last one is not a good example:D
     
  10. ulackfocus Mar 2, 2013

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    Don't go backwards, only go forwards. While the Speedy, Sub, and Porsche 911 are all icons that have been similar in design for 50+ years, there have always been subtle changes over the years. I like the reissue of the broad arrow and alpha hand Speedmasters.
     
  11. g-boac Mar 2, 2013

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    Hi Mike - some tooling absolutely exists, as a number of c321 - c1861 parts are interchangeable. Clearly some aren't, such as the column wheel vice cam-and-shuttle, or the operating lever for hour hammer. Even if the balance of the tooling needs to be recreated, that can certainly be done, as it was done at least one time previously (when the calibre was first produced), and generally speaking, in the fields of manufacturing, dies, press plates, molds continuously need to serviced or rebuilt entirely as they too wear during the production process.

    There is cost and capital investment required, but when you're talking production/reissue of a calibre vs. making a small supply for a backroom to handle vintage pieces, you're now getting into economies of scale. Additionally, if considering updates (such as computer-aided machining for ALL parts). . .this could be an opportunity to modernize production for all parts in this calibre - the existing c1861 parts that are unchanged from the original calibre, as well as new-production parts that are unique to the 321. Improved product yields can offset any non-recurring engineering that goes into setting up tooling to produce this calibre.

    As for pricing - even if it doubled the MSRP (which it wouldn't necessarily have to), the classic would still be in line with the latest (the 9300 Speedy) pricewise, and it would keep exactly with the ethos Ash pointed out - emphasizing quality over value. And this is something Stephen Urquhart himself said directly when addressing the issue of price: he said that Omega's intention is not to arbitrarily raise prices nor simply price products high; but they will accept higher production prices translating to higher product prices if they yield higher quality products.

    As for Mike's point - while I'd certainly be thrilled with a single c321 Speedmaster (a 105.012 heritage edition Moonwatch), a straight-lugged 105.003 would fit perfectly within Omega's Speedmaster line: a straight-lugged CK2998 heritage edition First Omega in Space, a 105.003 heritage edition First Omega EVA, and a 105/145.012 heritage edition Omega Moonwatch.

    cheers,
    Mark
     
  12. g-boac Mar 2, 2013

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    I love the reissues; I welcome the reissues cosmetically, but would especially love the reissues mechanically, with the correct movement.

    As for "going forwards", I think we can and should do both: for example, making the dials cosmetically correct but with modern materials and techniques to increase durability (e.g., Super-Luminova vs. tritium, or enamel vs. varnished dials), better seals, more precision manufacturing of parts stands as one example. And the offering of the calibre 9300 Speedmaster is another such example.

    But the main point: given its iconic status as the hallmark of the brand, and given that Omega is committed to retaining the manual movement Speedmaster, this manual movement should be THE calibre 321 Speedmaster.

    best,
    Mark
     
  13. dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Mar 2, 2013

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    For those that were wondering what happened to / where is the Omega Cal 321 / Lemania 2310 tooling, its still owned by Swatch Group, and still in production to this very day, although not in the form you probably expect...

    Breguet produce a series of watches known as the Breguet Classique Chronographs, and guess what powers them?

    Take a close look at that chicken bone shaped bridge, the layout of the balance cock and chronograph levers... familiar isn't it? ;)

    This isn't a vintage watch either, its in half a dozen current model Breguets as of 2013

    breguet_image.458886.jpg breguet 3617 chrono perpetual.jpg DSC_7716a_.jpg
     
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  14. ulackfocus Mar 2, 2013

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    Rob / Donut has one of them. ::love::
     
  15. dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Mar 2, 2013

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    Rob / Donut has one of everything lol
     
  16. ulackfocus Mar 2, 2013

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    Quite possibly. ;)
     
  17. g-boac Mar 3, 2013

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    WOW!!! Talk about saying hello to a familiar face!! :)
     
  18. dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Mar 3, 2013

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    Indeed, come to think of it, maybe when parts for Cal 321 run out we should just knock on Breguet's door for now, their's are probably improved over the original.

    If that movement said Omega on it again instead of Breguet, with that level of finishing, but in a Speedmaster Pro with a white gold applied Omega symbol on the dial, it would be genuinely hard to say no to it. The Speedmaster deserves to have its column wheel again.
     
  19. MellyVinelli Mar 3, 2013

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    If omega actually did that I would

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1362297054.651220.jpg

    in my pants.
     
  20. cicindela Steve @ ΩF Staff Member Mar 3, 2013

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    [​IMG]

    Look Mom, more jewels:thumbsup: