Omega 2451 174-2 1952, dial advice

cuger · Jan 18, 2023

Hello,

I am posting the first time here, even I am following the forum since 2 years. Thank you folks for all the information, I am appreciating this forum very much.

I am a guy from Germany, mid of the 50th, living close to Frankfurt and collecting watches since some years, mainly vintage Omega watches of the 50s (this is my first one), 60s, 70s.

Recently I got a chance to buy a Omega 2451 with cal. 321 (13 mil.). I like it very much.

The only thing I was doubting about already at the time I bought the watch is the dial.

As far as I can see the dial is original and I know that the hands and the dial had been relumed. Is seemed to be not repainted overall, you can still see the circles in the subdials very well. For me it looks like that some numbers and letters had been corrected.

I am not quite sure what to do now. I love the watch and it is wearing pretty nice even as it is:
- leave it
- looking for a dial in a better condition in the web (seems to be difficult)
- restore the dial; do you have an advice, who could do it

What is your opinion, what do you think?

I very much appreciate your feedback,

best regards

Udo

Dan S · Jan 18, 2023

Dial appears to be completely repainted to me. Wrong logo font, sloppy numerals, etc. Just blow up the photo and start looking at the printing in the sub-dials and outer track. Pretty bad.

It won't be easy to find a new dial, but that would give you the best outcome.

sheepdoll · Jan 18, 2023

Looks like someone painted it with a sharpie. Or one of those kids tee shirt pens that leave a worm of paint behind.

This is why I was never happy with redials.

Still there is some history to this mess. I'd probably keep it.

Good luck finding a new dial.

cuger · Jan 18, 2023

sheepdoll
Looks like someone painted it with a sharpie. Or one of those kids tee shirt pens that leave a worm of paint behind.

This is why I was never happy with redials.

Still there is some history to this mess. I'd probably keep it.

Good luck finding a new dial.

I agree, these were my first thoughts as well. Someone took a black pen and corrected the numbers, figures and dashes. If I could find someone to bring it in the condition it was before ‚restoration‘, I would do it. If you are not zooming, the watch is still looking very nice. Thanks

cristos71 · Jan 18, 2023

The case has been refinished in my mind too, I don't like that circular brushing at all.

cuger · Jan 18, 2023

Dan S
Dial appears to be completely repainted to me. Wrong logo font, sloppy numerals, etc. Just blow up the photo and start looking at the printing in the sub-dials and outer track. Pretty bad.

It won't be easy to find a new dial, but that would give you the best outcome.

I agree with your findings. I always thought, if it is a complete repaint, you won‘t see the circles in the subdials anymore, which you can still see here. I was thinking, that some corrected the dial with a (ball)pen in a bad way. The logo font is from earlier ages I am thinking. Appreciated your feedback.

Dan S · Jan 18, 2023

cuger
I agree with your findings. I always thought, if it is a complete repaint, you won‘t see the circles in the subdials anymore, which you can still see here. I was thinking, that some corrected the dial with a (ball)pen in a bad way. The logo font is from earlier ages I am thinking. Appreciated your feedback.

If the circles in the sub-dials are missing, then you can be sure that it's a repaint, but the inverse isn't always true. Some repainted dials successfully preserve those circles.

cuger · Jan 18, 2023

Dan S
If the circles in the sub-dials are missing, then you can be sure that it's a repaint, but the inverse isn't always true. Some repainted dials successfully preserve those circles.

Didn‘t know this. Thanks for the info.

cuger · Jan 18, 2023

One point I missed to mention is, that the dial only says Swiss and the movement says OXG. At least dial and movement are probably belonging originally together and the watch was for the US market.

cuger · Jan 21, 2023

I discussed the photos with one of the best known dial restauration specialists here in Germany to get his advice. He told me, that based on the photos the dial could be original (except of the lume) and the effects could come from moisture or sun exposure. He had similar cases like this before. The only way to get more sure is to bring the dial physically to him so he can take a look through the magnifying glass/ microscope. If I will find the time I will visit him. Keep you updated, if I get new information.

Oku · Jan 21, 2023

Hi Udo,
first of all welcome to OF!

Those Seamasters are great watches. However, yours has quite some issues.

cuger
I discussed the photos with one of the best known dial restauration specialists here in Germany to get his advice.

May I ask who this specialist is?

cuger
He told me, that based on the photos the dial could be original (except of the lume) and the effects could come from moisture or sun exposure.

I am sorry, but simply no, that is wrong. That redial is a total mess and can never be original.

Apart from that also several hands are wrong. You can compare your watch to the watches in this thread:
https://omegaforums.net/threads/not-all-321s-are-speedmasters.22332/

Do you have a pic of the movement and the caseback to see what reference that is?

Gav1967 · Jan 21, 2023

cuger
I discussed the photos with one of the best known dial restauration specialists here in Germany to get his advice. He told me, that based on the photos the dial could be original (except of the lume) and the effects could come from moisture or sun exposure. He had similar cases like this before. The only way to get more sure is to bring the dial physically to him so he can take a look through the magnifying glass/ microscope. If I will find the time I will visit him. Keep you updated, if I get new information.

I'm not sure who this so called expert is but he is seriously yanking your chain if he is insinuating that this dial could have left the factory like this and has been affected by environmental factors 😕. I would run a mile from him in future.
The print, font and lines are hot mess and clearly a redial.

Geezer · Jan 21, 2023

As indicated in the posts above, there is no doubt about this being a redial.

There are too many indicators but just look at the print underneath the 10 o'clock marker. It is completely off.

And indeed the case has also been been refinished (quite harshly in my opinion).

worldwidewes · Jan 21, 2023

As others have said this is a redial. And a pretty brazen one at that. I wonder how anyone could do a redial like this and look at it and say, "Yes, this'll work." It looks like the dial's been written on.

Dan S · Jan 21, 2023

cuger
I discussed the photos with one of the best known dial restauration specialists here in Germany to get his advice. He told me, that based on the photos the dial could be original (except of the lume) and the effects could come from moisture or sun exposure. He had similar cases like this before. The only way to get more sure is to bring the dial physically to him so he can take a look through the magnifying glass/ microscope. If I will find the time I will visit him. Keep you updated, if I get new information.

This expert is apparently trying to extract some money from you. Anyone with experience would immediately recognize it as an amateurish re-dial. I would suggest that you spend some time, at least a few months, developing some first-hand experience with Omega dials. Then you will not be so reliant on the opinions of others, and so easily taken advantage of.

tamura · Jan 21, 2023

Omega 2451 174-2 1952, dial advice

cuger

Dan S

sheepdoll

cuger

cristos71

cuger

Dan S

cuger

cuger

cuger

Oku

Gav1967

Geezer

worldwidewes

Dan S

tamura

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