Next step in my watch-repair journey: Unknown Omega Pocket Watch

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I started this thread: https://omegaforums.net/threads/exp...ing-started-with-servicing-for-myself.180073/

I started that thread trying to get into some watch repair, which I've been doing poorly (or at least with poor luck!). I had a ST36 that I screwed up badly, then a ST36 that a build went fine/well. THEN, a NH34 disassembly/reassembly that went without issue.

THEN, an Elgin 293 pocket watch that ended up having a busted balance that I'll be unable to fix.

However, that thread is getting big! SO, this is one for my next step:

I looked at the 3 pocket watches I have left. I have 2 Walthams that are running well, though perhaps lowish amplitude. As much as I want to dive into one, I'm a little tentative to work on those.

However, I still have this absolutely gorgeous Omega that according to THIS: https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/omega-watch-co/2433139

is a 1905, but no known movement. It says 16 jewels. OTHERWISE, I know nothing about it. It is absolutely beautiful both in movement and case, so I'm excited to dig into it.

A quick function check shows: It is 'stuck' in wind mode. Pulling the crown works, but it seems to stay in wind mode. We'll see what that means!

WINDING the watch itself actually doesn't work. The click spring doesn't seem to be causing the click to engage the ratchet wheel, so it just spins.

The balance seems to be working 'fine', but I have a feeling I need a hair-spring, it looks a little messy in there, plus the balance wheel doesn't do its 'back and forth' thing.

ANYONE with ideas/help is appreciated, but otherwise feel free to stick around and comment/enjoy the process!

 
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I just finished taking it down, and once my photos are all off my phone, I'll start a post with the teardown photos (I took an absurd amount!).

To note: The hairspring is completely missing other than a few small pieces. Just gone to history. The inside of the movement has a decent amount of surface rust, but nothing that looks debilitating. Additionally, every pivot I took a look at seems fine. The click-spring was a little 'stuck', but with a touch of pegwood, seems to be springy again! So that is a nice improvement.

INSIDE the case has "This case guaranteed to wear 10 years" and a serial number, but no additional inscription. I see some have logos in them, this does not. I didn't snap a picture I think, but the back of the watch has some really detailed engraving.

Movement across the bridges is 40.54mm, or 41.85mm in diameter across the slightly larger base plate.

ADDITIONALLY: The base plate has an inscription:

The swiss 'plus' logo
6260 (I think? First 6 is struck deep, so could be an 8).
An Omega logo in a circle with the word Omega
The serial # that matches the bridge.

I searched Omega 6260 pocket watch and didn't really find anything on it. I thought it would be a movement ID, but that doesn't seem to be the case? Anyone have any idea which movement this is? @JimInOz : I see you have helped identify ones in the past, hoping you can help 馃榾 Particularly with what to google/ebay for replacement parts.
 
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OK, a select handful of photos here 馃榾 Sorry if it is a little pic heavy.

See my summary in the post above. I'm currently seeing if I can clean up the main plate. A little bit of peg-wood went a LONG way with this, which was really nice to see. So it is currently in the ultrasonic to see if it cleans up nicely. That said, the machining/etc on this plate are stunners. Every part of this watch movement is very pretty.

FIRST, inside the back plate. I don't see any other engraving other than what you can see here. It is a very nice looking case, with snap on front/backs.





As I took it apart, I discovered QUICKLY that the hairspring is toast. You can see it in this picture, as well as some of the crustiness.



I pulled the bridge and you can see more of how bad the hairspring is. Most of it isn't even existing anymore.


MORE of the rusty stuff on the main plate. You can also see the engraving I was talking about here. Pegwood seemed to make this scrape off with no problems.



I pulled the click/ratchet wheel, and you can see the spring along with some rusty/crustiness here. It started being 'springy' again the way it is supposed to (I think!) after I pulled the click, so I imagine the rust is the case of those problems.



Before I pulled bridges, I was able to wiggle the wheel train a little, and discovered that it spins! I suspect it needs a DEEP clean, but the wheel train moved with very little effort after some mild wiggling.




Pulling apart the keyless works a little, I saw this interesting piece used to push back on the main 'pin'. I'm beginning to see how these keyless works function, and I'm pretty impressed with the ingenuity!


ONE thing I don't really get is this little 'U' shaped piece that I found in the frame. it doesn't seem to engage anything and just looks like it is SUPPOSED to slide? it didn't actually move until I prodded at it a bit though:




Mainspring ended up being busted near the end plus a heck of a not-flatness. I found a little chunk of it on the bench after I took it apart. It is a little messy inside, but not horrible? Impressive for 120 years old.





ANYWAY, thats it! Torn down, and in need of a few parts. I'm back to being optimistic about a project, which means it is going to go quite poorly if history is any evidence. I would love to get this fixed, it is too beautiful to not tick someday soon.


IF anyone has any hint on how to get a hairspring (or complete balance?) it would be appreciated! Additionally, any info on the movement itself would be grately appreciated. I don't really know anything about it.
 
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Anyone have any idea which movement this is?
Can you measure the diameter of the plate in mm.
In fact, measure the dial side diameter, and also the diameter of the upper section.
 
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Can you measure the diameter of the plate in mm.
In fact, measure the dial side diameter, and also the diameter of the upper section.
Looks like 43.10mm on the 'dial side' diameter (where it is particularly large). The other section is 41.88mm or so. I'm measuring with calipers (albeit very good ones), so this is perhaps useful to know of as 'guess-o-meter' sizes.
 
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Also, measured my mainspring. It has a little bit of a 'turned back' hook type, with the same thickness everywhere (no little 'T'). It is 0.18 mm thick, 2.50mm tall, and roughly 21.5 INCHES long. The barrel itself is 16.49mm ID as best I can tell.

In case that helps 馃榾
 
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Caliber 19''' NN 7-16P.

Yours appears to be missing the swan neck spring for the regulator arm.

 
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Caliber 19''' NN 7-16P.

Yours appears to be missing the swan neck spring for the regulator arm.

That is fantastic, thank you! I see what you mean about that spring. Looks like I need 3 parts now.

I did a Google of that caliber but don't really see a good parts list or good place to get them. Is there a preferred place to order stuff for this?
 
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The same place you order parts for a 1904 De Dion Bouton 馃槈.

It will be a matter of scouring eBay and other old watch parts houses for the parts. You may need to get donor movements as some parts may fit, but some may not.

Even though Omega had improved production techniques, many movements from that time were still hand fitted and parts may require some work to fit.
 
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The same place you order parts for a 1904 De Dion Bouton 馃槈.

It will be a matter of scouring eBay and other old watch parts houses for the parts. You may need to get donor movements as some parts may fit, but some may not.

Even though Omega had improved production techniques, many movements from that time were still hand fitted and parts may require some work to fit.
Urgh, of course 馃檨 I was encouraged that most of the parts for the Elgin are available, so the lack of eBay/Google parts for this caliber was shocking and I thought I was searching the wrong things.

The difficulty in finding caliber from serial/etc also makes it tough sadly, so donor movements end up not being easy as well.

Perhaps this is just another one that ends up being "good practice" and gets to go back in the drawer of failures.

The advise to start on pocket watches is both good and bad I'm seeing. The movements are larger and easier to work on, but as soon as you need a part it becomes so much more difficult.
 
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I hate to say it, but I told you so.

馃槈

Hang in there, it get better with time and experience.

 
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I hate to say it, but I told you so.

Yep. 100% you did!

I DID start with a pair of modern movements (NH34 and ST36), but figured these were cheap enough to practice on. A little discouraging of course, but an education all the same.

Perhaps I'll move onto watches after I do some servicing on the two "working" pocket watches to see if I can improve them at least.

Maybe the two Walthams will have better parts availability, but they have been tick-tocking in my office all day 馃榾 so at least they work.
 
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I figure as a last-ditch effort I'll try to see if i can just order a 19NN mainspring and see if it'll work, and I see Perrin has 2 hairsprings.

https://perrinwatchparts.com/en-us/...stud-mounted-part-number-471-fits-omega-19-nn
https://perrinwatchparts.com/en-us/...stud-mounted-part-number-473-fits-omega-19-nn

I don't know enough about hairsprings to know if either of these might be right, but they advertise as 19NN. Are there any clues I can use to see which is the right one? Or is there just no way to know?
 
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NIce, I have a few Omega pocket watches, and some parts.

Hairsprings are often going to be the problem. The pocket watch ones though are much easier to work with than the wrist ones what were statistically graded and matched to the balance.

I had some plates, I was going to fit a generic sort of balance into. For the most part the watchmaker was expected to turn the staff to fit to size.

Poising tools, which look like a little vice with synthetic ruby or sapphire jaws, used to turn up in tool assortments often. There are also balance truing calipers. The little tiny weight washers were used to poise the balance, which makes it not heavy in any one place. There are also a series of timing screws (I forget if there were two or 4) which were used to do the course regulation.

This was everyday work back in the day. The staff pivots tended to break since there was no shock protection.

Elgin was the company that wrote the book on statistical parts grading. I once took a bunch of random 'parts' and got a ticking watch out of them. Elgin probably was the most influential of the watch companies. Waltham, might be popular with collectors and such, but they retain a more 19th century feel to them.

I have an A11, which I want to see if I can get going again. The Sportsman, and Lord Elgin movements are what evolved into the modern swiss watch. Even the parts packaging and numbering feel somewhat modern. They did move production overseas. I think they were having the machine tools made first. Since that is where the precision starts.

Surprisingly I have recently been able to do this with A. Schild, landeron, and most recently Omega 5XX parts. Not cost effective but fun.

In all these cases I have dozens of movements to work with.

Once you have worked a bit with pocket watches, Landeron 48 movements are cheap and plentiful. While these have chronographs, The basic watch is solid, and at 12 or 13 lignes large and easy to work on.

I still find it amusing that one of the first Puzzle watches I worked with was the Tissot equivalent of an 861. I also under supervision, worked on a memomatic, and the chronostop.

As for parts Bestfit catalogs and the cross ref sheets are a must. For the most part by the 1950s, one could order a staff, mainspring to order. Even hairsprings. Not sure when they went to Nirvalox (I think a nicchrome alloy) So a blue steel hairspring could be good enough.

My guess is that most makers probably outsourced the balance/hairspring anyway. I have a tray full of them, and they all look pretty much the same.

And we have cell phones with clock apps, so one could easly let the staff tap against the glass spring of the phone, while one counted the beats ... (this was done against the crystal of a known good pocket watch.)
 
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I figure as a last-ditch effort I'll try to see if i can just order a 19NN mainspring and see if it'll work, and I see Perrin has 2 hairsprings.

https://perrinwatchparts.com/en-us/...stud-mounted-part-number-471-fits-omega-19-nn
https://perrinwatchparts.com/en-us/...stud-mounted-part-number-473-fits-omega-19-nn

I don't know enough about hairsprings to know if either of these might be right, but they advertise as 19NN. Are there any clues I can use to see which is the right one? Or is there just no way to know?
Before you spend money on a hairspring, you need to check your balance to ensure that the staff pivots are not worn or broken. Check your balance jewels to ensure they are OK.
Then fit the balance without the hairspring and fit it to the plate with the balance cock. Check for absolute trouble free rotation, end shake and side shake.
Only then would I proceed to get another hairspring, and I would leave that until every other part of the watch was functional.

Have a look at your original to see if it's just a flat spring, or is there evidence of a Breguet overcoil.
Then measure the diameter of your balance staff and check with the supplier as to the staff size of the collet.
 
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Before you spend money on a hairspring, you need to check your balance to ensure that the staff pivots are not worn or broken. Check your balance jewels to ensure they are OK.
Then fit the balance without the hairspring and fit it to the plate with the balance cock. Check for absolute trouble free rotation, end shake and side shake.
Only then would I proceed to get another hairspring, and I would leave that until every other part of the watch was functional.

Have a look at your original to see if it's just a flat spring, or is there evidence of a Breguet overcoil.
Then measure the diameter of your balance staff and check with the supplier as to the staff size of the collet.
Thank you for the advice! I'll do that. I might see if I can get it all the way together tomorrow. I DID check the jewels under the microscope. All were dirty but cleaned up and looked perfect best I could tell.

The only parts of the hairspring that are left are the ones in the picture above unfortunately, so not enough to see if I have a Breguet overcoil (at least to me). Does 'flat' spring describe the spring material itself (that is, round vs flat cross section), or whether or not it has the overcoil?

If thats the case, I have no idea, I have 2 very beat up turns, and thats it. The rest seems to just be rust residue everywhere.
 
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A "Flat" hairspring will sit on the table and all parts touch the table at once. A Breguet overcoil leaves the table and crosses over the coils that still lay flat. All hairsprings are rectangular in cross-section.

I've got to give you credit for boldness; if you get a working watch out of this, that will be impressive.
 
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I managed to order a mainspring by the 19NN, but it was nothing like what I pulled out. I THINK I ordered one that matches what I took out, so I'm going to give that a shot. If it looks like it is going to work at that point, I'll risk one of those hairsprings.

I messed around with one of the Walthams, which ended up WORKING but with a snow-storm. The mainspring I bought for it ended up not really being able to hook, so it kept slipping when wound. It took a LONG time and a good 40-50 disassembly/reassembly cycles trying to figure it out: The mainspring wasn't catching on the outside of the barrel correctly, so I eventually had to try bending it, and did... poorly.

ALSO, it had a weird setup where the arbor was square-keyed into the BOTTOM of the barrel, and the hook for the inside of the spring was a part of the barrel cap, so I kept blaming THAT for slipping.

Long story short, I suspect I managed to do a bad job with SOMETHING at one point (or didn't check end-shake well enough?). ALSO, both of the jewel caps for the balance wheel had screws that were rusted in place, so I wasn't able to do those, so perhaps that was a part of it...

Either way, I gave up on that one and moved onto the other Waltham.

In general, I paid very little for these, and am finding the process mostly enjoyable, so if I get working watches out of this project, it is just a bonus.
 
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I messed around with one of the Walthams, which ended up WORKING but with a snow-storm. The mainspring I bought for it ended up not really being able to hook, so it kept slipping when wound. It took a LONG time and a good 40-50 disassembly/reassembly cycles trying to figure it out: The mainspring wasn't catching on the outside of the barrel correctly, so I eventually had to try bending it, and did... poorly.
This tends to be an issue with the hole end mainsprings. Adding a small kink to allow the spring to catch is a common technique to assist, as is using a small file to sharpen the edge of the hole so it catches better.
 
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This tends to be an issue with the hole end mainsprings. Adding a small kink to allow the spring to catch is a common technique to assist, as is using a small file to sharpen the edge of the hole so it catches better.
I tried the kink a few times and actually ended up having one of the mainsprings I tried (I bought THREE for that stupid watch) break at that point.... THEN start slipping. I had read about the blued springs being bad over time, I guess I should have believed you 馃榿