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Newbie questions, prepare for some good laughs

  1. Eon

    Eon Nov 10, 2019

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    Hey all, I recently posted about my first ever vintage watch as well as my first ever Omega, a little 1950s Seamaster that I snagged on a whim. I learned from the post that it's not s pristine specimen (I already knew that) and what exactly wasn't factory about it. From that thread, I learned a lot but also raised a lot of questions. I figured it would be best to lump them all together in one thread as a sort of reverse AMA.

    1*) When it comes to a redialed watch, why is it so looked down upon? We're not talking about bad redials here, just what could be considered a "good" redial. Why is it such a bad thing?
    2*) What are some small details that would give away a redialed watch assuming there wasn't anything as big as missing second markings, misaligned crests, etc. (I've seen the Worst Redials thread, so I sort of know what the dead giveaways are.
    3) Is there such a thing as too much patina?
    4) What are your personal deal breakers for a piece you found?
    5) What are your personal vintage grails? Why?
    6) What are some of the best "must have" vintages (Omega or otherwise) for me to take a look at for inspiration? I'm not of the belief that there are any "must have" watches in general but it'll give me a good idea of what people value and why.
    7) What are some vintages to avoid like the plague?
    8) What are your methods you use to avoid taking baths? Everyone is bound to get burned but what would your advice to a novice be?
    9) What got you into vintage watches to begin with and what has your journey looked like?

    Thank you for taking time out of your days to enlighten me, I appreciate it a ton!

    *Here are some examples from the Worst Redials thread, can you please point out to me what's so bad about them? To my novice eye they don't look too shabby and I'd be happy with one unless someone told me otherwise.

    #1
    [​IMG]

    #2
    [​IMG]

    #3
    [​IMG]

    #4 (My little Omega, what gives away the redial to the trained eye but not to mine other than the lume reapply? Is it the "Automatic" being a little too close together?)
    2.JPG
     
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  2. Walrus

    Walrus Nov 10, 2019

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    Become familiar with the script on various omegas and where they are placed. You will even see misspelling on the redials. Although some can be quite close. There is always a lot to learn and there are unscrupulous sellers or sometimes sellers that don’t themselves
     
  3. Davidt

    Davidt Nov 10, 2019

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    I'm sure you'll get a lot of answers to this thread (I'll try and answer some questions later once I'm finished with nappies!), but most of your questions have been answered several times over the years on similar threads on this forum.

    Using the search function and going down a few rabbit holes will reveal loads of great information related to your questions.
     
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  4. watchyouwant

    watchyouwant ΩF Clairvoyant Nov 10, 2019

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    Too many Question in one go. Vintage needs Time. Slow down and read for yourself and handle watches. No reading can substitute handling. We can often help, but it is your Journey. Make mistakes and learn. Come back with your next purchase to discuss. Kind regards. Achim
     
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  5. Dan S

    Dan S Nov 10, 2019

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    Read lots of old threads. Scroll through the WRUW thread. Look at 1,000 photos of Seamasters. Slow down and be patient. You will answer your own questions.
     
  6. redpcar

    redpcar Nov 10, 2019

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    1*) When it comes to a redialed watch, why is it so looked down upon? We're not talking about bad redials here, just what could be considered a "good" redial. Why is it such a bad thing? Depends. If you want a daily watch and the price is right, don't sweat it. Refinished dials kill the value (and the amount of people wanting to buy it). The trick is not to pay a premium for a watch that is re-done. Research research research. I have a bunch of re-dialed watches and love them.
    2*) What are some small details that would give away a redialed watch assuming there wasn't anything as big as missing second markings, misaligned crests, etc. (I've seen the Worst Redials thread, so I sort of know what the dead giveaways are. You are on the right track. Research.
    3) Is there such a thing as too much patina? Yep but it's a personal preference. I love a watch that looks its age but there is a fine line between aged and just plain crusty.
    4) What are your personal deal breakers for a piece you found? I'm open to anything. All depends on the price. If I find a worthless pile of crap Seamaster but it has potential and priced accordingly...
    5) What are your personal vintage grails? Why? Too many to list. I lean toward military, divers, etc. Out of the ordinary.
    6) What are some of the best "must have" vintages (Omega or otherwise) for me to take a look at for inspiration? I'm not of the belief that there are any "must have" watches in general but it'll give me a good idea of what people value and why. You need to figure out what you like. Everyone has different tastes that's why this forum RULES!
    7) What are some vintages to avoid like the plague? Define vintage. I'm in on everything up to the "electronic" era. This is when Omega was hitting the skids (and just about everyone else).
    8) What are your methods you use to avoid taking baths? Everyone is bound to get burned but what would your advice to a novice be? Buy the seller. Research him as much as you do the watch. Don't drink and bid on ebay ;-) If something seems too good to be true, it usually is. Avoid snap buys (at least when you are paying a premium).
    9) What got you into vintage watches to begin with and what has your journey looked like? Thrift store LeCoultre for $3. BAM!
     
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  7. Eon

    Eon Nov 10, 2019

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    I've done a lot of reading on most of my questions but have come to find that, especially concerning redials, people just discuss that they're bad but not why they're bad because it's so elementary and everyone just sort of "knows." I know I'll get there eventually and I look forward to the journey but it's tough in the early stages without a bit of guidance.

    Thank you for the advice, I'm excited to break new ground into something I didn't think I was interested in and I guess I'm a little carried away with learning as much as I can!
    As much as I agree with the message behind this and the wisdom it holds, I do find fault when it comes to applying this towards knowing what is legit, completely fake, and just modified. Handling a watch lets you know what you like and don't like but it's hard to tell (in the early stages at least) if you're in love with something that'll bite you or not. I'm not afraid to be bitten I'd just rather be familiar with the dog that'll be doing the biting, if that makes any sense.
     
  8. ahsposo

    ahsposo Most fun screen name at ΩF Nov 10, 2019

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    Before I discuss your dial I have to confess my first Omega purchase was a pretty bad redial. Worse than yours. Far worse.

    Your Seamaster is the first tell. Really crude looking after studying several hundred correct ones. I don't have an exact dial match but this should be pretty close to what it should look like, this is a bumper of similar vintage but with central seconds:

    s-l1600-2.jpg
     
  9. redpcar

    redpcar Nov 10, 2019

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    btw, I have an Omega very similar to yours in many ways ;) I wouldn't change a thing. I still remember the day I bought it.
    Redial.jpeg
     
  10. Eon

    Eon Nov 10, 2019

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    Thank you for the comparison picture. The Worst Redials thread is fun and all but I'm left unsure of what it is supposed to look like. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the biggest differences between mine and yours are the S and T in Seamaster. My S is too smooth and the T is too tall and slightly crooked. If I were to grab both watches at a shop I would have been hard pressed to tell you which was legit from the font alone - the clarity in yours is much more noticeable compared to mine, compounded with the font changes.

    And at the end of the day, isn't that kind of the whole reason we're here? Because we enjoy watches? After learning mine was redialed with a different crown I still loved it just as much, probably more to be honest. It's not perfect but that's what makes it unique. I didn't pay a fortune for it expecting perfection and I'm absolutely happy with the machine on my wrist. Would I be any happier with an Omega crown or original lume? Not really, no, wouldn't change a thing. Thank you for sharing yours, I wont forget the day I bought mine either!
     
  11. ahsposo

    ahsposo Most fun screen name at ΩF Nov 10, 2019

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    Your "G" in OMEGA and the entire word automatic are pretty bad IMO.

    And look at the minute track over there at 8 to 9.
     
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  12. Eon

    Eon Nov 10, 2019

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    Takeaway: buy a jewlers loop and keep researching before trying to go for any big ticket pieces? Rodger that!
     
  13. redpcar

    redpcar Nov 10, 2019

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    Pretty bad? You are talking about my watch? Please. Take a look at the added tic marks on the sub dial.
    I'm just imagining the guy who had it done in 1970 and said: "Yes, that looks great".
     
  14. Eon

    Eon Nov 10, 2019

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    That's the enjoyment I'm getting from the Redials thread, seeing some of them and thinking that someone, somewhere, at some point, must have been paid to do that. Not only was money exchanged for the service, but also that the customer agreed (for some of the worst ones especially). I know this sounds ironic given the status of mine but to my low standards it's in the 60th or 70th percentile, some I've come across made my middle school doodles look like perfection.
     
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  15. Davidt

    Davidt Nov 10, 2019

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    To most people, the dial is the main part of the watch. Ok some people have particular interest in movements etc, but to most, it's the dial that is the heart and soul.

    It's the part that actually displays the time.

    It's the bit you look at countless times a day.

    It's usually the dial that came in various configurations from the factory or aged in a particular way to attract you to that specific watch.

    To collectors it's important that all parts of a watch are original, but because of the above it's particularly important that the dial is original. For Omegas this means factory original, and printed in Switzerland in the 60's (for example) and not repainted by Bob in Birmingham in 2018.
     
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  16. Eon

    Eon Nov 10, 2019

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    There's a bit of misunderstanding here. Thank you for the clarification on why collectors loath redials, it's nice to draw the comparison to Bob in Birmingham. What I was meaning by that phrase though was what in particular made the redial so bad. For a specific watch. For example, I saw one with "Omega Seamaster" printed so poorly it read "Omega Scamaster" or a Longines that read "Loongines." Those would be what made those redials so bad.

    Sorry for my poor choice of words. I should have said "people just discuss that they're (poorly done) but not why they're (poorly done)."
     
  17. CaptainWinsor

    CaptainWinsor Nov 10, 2019

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    My best advice is stop and get out while you still can. Collecting, anything, is a vast black hole that consumes all
     
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  18. redpcar

    redpcar Nov 10, 2019

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    Keeps me out of the bars ;)
     
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  19. CaptainWinsor

    CaptainWinsor Nov 10, 2019

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    seriously, everything said so far is great advice.
     
  20. Eon

    Eon Nov 10, 2019

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    I've already accepted the fact that I fit right in with everyone else in the collecting world. Nick Shabazz of the knife collecting space says it well in this video. We're here on a watch forum on a Sunday evening discussing 70 year old watches. We all have a problem. I absolutely love it.