New Tudor Black Bay Inhouse

timjohans · Dec 26, 2016

Hi All,

Thought I would jump at the opportunity to get the new Black Bay Black with inhouse - I got such a good price, very few AD's here in Australia will discount.

The model I got was the black bay black bezel, stainless on a leather strap, with the in-house.

Anyhow, this was RRP $4000AUD, so ~$2870 in USD. I managed to get one dealer down to $3050AUD, so ~$2189 USD, which I feel is an excellent price for a brand new piece ?

I know some of you prefer the ETA movement version, but the primary motivation here was a diver with COSC, and a long power reserve - which this models fulfils nicely.

Let me know your thoughts!

Foo2rama · Dec 26, 2016

Nice price. Can't wait to see the pics.

semper_shells · Dec 26, 2016

I'm fairly new around these parts as well, but I jumped on the previous model for that specific reason. Not that the eta version is better but it was the opportunity to get the last of a model that is about to be different for better or worse.

MPWATCH · Dec 26, 2016

timjohans
Hi All,

Thought I would jump at the opportunity to get the new Black Bay Black with inhouse - I got such a good price, very few AD's here in Australia will discount.

The model I got was the black bay black bezel, stainless on a leather strap, with the in-house.

Anyhow, this was RRP $4000AUD, so ~$2870 in USD. I managed to get one dealer down to $3050AUD, so ~$2189 USD, which I feel is an excellent price for a brand new piece ?

I know some of you prefer the ETA movement version, but the primary motivation here was a diver with COSC, and a long power reserve - which this models fulfils nicely.

Let me know your thoughts!

I know this is subjective, but I personally believe the ETA movement makes the piece less valuable. The brand had to put up a pretty penny to go in-house. I can't see how an ETA movement would be able to cover as much detail as in-house.

Will leave it up to the experts!

Thomas

gostang9 · Dec 26, 2016

timjohans
Hi All,

Thought I would jump at the opportunity to get the new Black Bay Black with inhouse - I got such a good price, very few AD's here in Australia will discount.

The model I got was the black bay black bezel, stainless on a leather strap, with the in-house.

Anyhow, this was RRP $4000AUD, so ~$2870 in USD. I managed to get one dealer down to $3050AUD, so ~$2189 USD, which I feel is an excellent price for a brand new piece ?

I know some of you prefer the ETA movement version, but the primary motivation here was a diver with COSC, and a long power reserve - which this models fulfils nicely.

Let me know your thoughts!

Sounds like a great price to me. What city?

I'm in Sydney until Saturday and would love to pay a visit...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jhh834 · Dec 26, 2016

Can't wait to see some pictures. It sounds like you got a great price, and yes that power reserve is very impressive. I'm sure you will enjoy your new timepiece.

Foo2rama · Dec 26, 2016

MPWATCH
I know this is subjective, but I personally believe the ETA movement makes the piece less valuable. The brand had to put up a pretty penny to go in-house. I can't see how an ETA movement would be able to cover as much detail as in-house.

Will leave it up to the experts!

Thomas

Oddly I think then eta is more valuable. Service costs are way lower on a basically identical watch.

Gwade · Dec 26, 2016

Tudor has used ETA movements since the original snowflakes. "In-house" is a marketing strategy to suggest better quality or upgraded materials. Omegas Co-Axial isn't any better than a ancient 505. Ask any watchmaker you trust...

Still, your price negotiation was excellent and you scored the first year run out of the gate. Kudos!

Foo2rama · Dec 26, 2016

Gwade
. Omegas Co-Axial isn't any better than a ancient 505. Ask any watchmaker you trust...

🍿

timjohans · Dec 27, 2016

Thanks all, pics attached 😀

timjohans · Dec 27, 2016

Foo2rama
Nice price. Can't wait to see the pics.

How have you found the black bezel? Does it scratch easily and leave permanent marks? This is my one concern.

timjohans · Dec 27, 2016

gostang9
Sounds like a great price to me. What city?

I'm in Sydney until Saturday and would love to pay a visit...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I live on the Gold Coast, but got this from Brisbane (very few stores have this it seems). I know Kennedy's in Melbourne have it, as well as the black PVD model. Had to ask around several stores interstate as well to get pricing and match.

Your best bet is probably the Hour Glass in Sydney (which is where I got mine from, except it was the Brisbane store). Its in "high demand" so I am told which is why 95% of the stores will not discount at all it seems. In fact, speaking to our local AD here on the Gold Coast, they sold this on Christmas eve for full RRP - and would not match the pricing I got at all.

MPWATCH · Dec 27, 2016

Gwade
Tudor has used ETA movements since the original snowflakes. "In-house" is a marketing strategy to suggest better quality or upgraded materials. Omegas Co-Axial isn't any better than a ancient 505. Ask any watchmaker you trust...

Still, your price negotiation was excellent and you scored the first year run out of the gate. Kudos!

At the end of the day, movements developers/producers steal technology and practice from each other all the time. I personally feel that if you are going to call the production of your movement "in-house" there should be an additional set of requirements on top of COSC and the other slew of general qualifying tests for the mass produced ETA's vs true in-house, home made movement.

Isn't Tag guilty of the exact same thing? I've heard lots of people complain about a more recent release (last year or two) where half the watches were in house and half were ETA. Lots of bothered buyers. Marketing or not, I do think there are some ethics at question when producing a movement and conveying the quality in either path chosen. Not favoring in-house or bashing ETA! Just information I've acquired down the road and would like more detail on from knowledgable users.

Here to learn! I do not carry the answers around these parts....Criticism, correction welcome

Best,

Thomas

semper_shells · Dec 27, 2016

MPWATCH
I know this is subjective, but I personally believe the ETA movement makes the piece less valuable. The brand had to put up a pretty penny to go in-house. I can't see how an ETA movement would be able to cover as much detail as in-house.

Will leave it up to the experts!

Thomas

Yes, you make some excellent points but one of the big reasons that I went with the ETA movement version is the Tudor Rose on the dial vs the Shield on the in-house movement versions. I really like the detail of the rose and the fact they went to the shield made me chose this one over the new model.

Archer · Dec 27, 2016

MPWATCH
I know this is subjective, but I personally believe the ETA movement makes the piece less valuable. The brand had to put up a pretty penny to go in-house. I can't see how an ETA movement would be able to cover as much detail as in-house.

Will leave it up to the experts!

Thomas

Can I ask what sort of detail you are referring to? In a watch like this, the main reason for going "in-house" (whatever that really means) is for the sake of exclusivity. The main complaint of people who typically hold the view that ETA makes a watch less valuable is that the movements are common. Common doesn't mean inferior, and uncommon doesn't mean better in any way.

The ETA 2824-2 comes in COSC grade, so if Rolex wanted to, theycould have had the ETA version made COSC, but my feeling is they would not want to advertise that someone else's movement can be as accurate as theirs is by putting the best version in their watches. In fact even non-COSC grade 2824-2's can be made to run well within the commonly accepted COSC requirements with not a lot of effort.

I don't know a ton about the new Tudor movements, and in fact no one really will other than Rolex. The reason is that no one will be servicing these, even the Rolex service centers. If there is a problem with the movement, or its due for servicing, the whole movement gets swapped. The old movements are sent back to the factory and serviced there, and then sent back out to be swapped into other watches. This is an increasing method of "service" in the industry.

This means that no spare parts will leave the factory, so there will be no channels for spares to get to the open market. You would be captive to Rolex for servicing in perpetuity. For that reason alone, the "in-house" movement version is worth a lot less to me personally, and I think many will feel this way as time goes on and they discover the service restrictions (I doubt they tell you this when you buy the watch). Now if you are the type who uses the factory for service anyway, this may mean nothing to you, but for many they don't want to use factory service, so it will be an ugly surprise when they find out their trusted watchmaker can't service the watch...

Cheers, Al

Fritz · Dec 27, 2016

So @Archer what you're effectively saying is, once your watch goes back to Rolex for service you get "someone else's" movement in your watch. This could have had a rough life and effectively makes your watch a factory Frankin. I'm not sure I like that, kind of like an engine swap... Sure its been serviced but has it been around the clock once? I'd much rather support my trusted local watchmaker.

MPWATCH · Dec 27, 2016

Archer
Can I ask what sort of detail you are referring to? In a watch like this, the main reason for going "in-house" (whatever that really means) is for the sake of exclusivity. The main complaint of people who typically hold the view that ETA makes a watch less valuable is that the movements are common. Common doesn't mean inferior, and uncommon doesn't mean better in any way.

The ETA 2824-2 comes in COSC grade, so if Rolex wanted to, theycould have had the ETA version made COSC, but my feeling is they would not want to advertise that someone else's movement can be as accurate as theirs is by putting the best version in their watches. In fact even non-COSC grade 2824-2's can be made to run well within the commonly accepted COSC requirements with not a lot of effort.

I don't know a ton about the new Tudor movements, and in fact no one really will other than Rolex. The reason is that no one will be servicing these, even the Rolex service centers. If there is a problem with the movement, or its due for servicing, the whole movement gets swapped. The old movements are sent back to the factory and serviced there, and then sent back out to be swapped into other watches. This is an increasing method of "service" in the industry.

This means that no spare parts will leave the factory, so there will be no channels for spares to get to the open market. You would be captive to Rolex for servicing in perpetuity. For that reason alone, the "in-house" movement version is worth a lot less to me personally, and I think many will feel this way as time goes on and they discover the service restrictions (I doubt they tell you this when you buy the watch). Now if you are the type who uses the factory for service anyway, this may mean nothing to you, but for many they don't want to use factory service, so it will be an ugly surprise when they find out their trusted watchmaker can't service the watch...

Cheers, Al

Details I was looking for revolved more around how movement production changes values & why someone would want a more common movement vs. something that may or may not be "exclusive" (Which I had no idea this level of deception was still taking place since so many watch makers are online/opening newly released watches daily & going in to depth on every model possible.)

This answers my question completely...makes a lot more sense! Seems like I have fallen victim to that exact marketing scheme...I think of a Patek Philippe production process when "in-house" is thrown around. I guess in this high end spectrum of values/collecting you become used to appreciating the polishing/beveling and all the other little details that differentiate a mass produced movement and a movement executed by a true craftsman.

I do care about the servicing side of things very much so...just like a car in my eyes. I want my car to be able to be repaired anywhere, not just the most expensive show in town who may or may not be doing me justice long term. I think watch collectors are similar in the sense that a watchmaker relationship involves lots of trust as far as how/what they are going to do to your piece.

My conclusion here is that if the watch is being purchased for a proper time keeping device vs. a specific execution/reference, then the ETA is the way to go due to cheaper, more available servicing. If you are purchasing a black bay to document a time when Tudor advanced in the world of watch making, I'd suggest purchasing the "in-house" or Tudor produced movement.

Again, we all place values in different parts of every watch, but in my eyes the movement can be responsible for changing a watch from a $1k piece to $100k piece.

Thank you for your very detailed and easy to read explanation Al! I appreciate all information you have sent my way & will continue to learn through the kindness of the community!!!

Best,

Thomas

Archer · Dec 27, 2016

Fritz
So @Archer what you're effectively saying is, once your watch goes back to Rolex for service you get "someone else's" movement in your watch. This could have had a rough life and effectively makes your watch a factory Frankin. I'm not sure I like that, kind of like an engine swap... Sure its been serviced but has it been around the clock once? I'd much rather support my trusted local watchmaker.

Eventually this would be likely, yes. Right now these are new enough that if your watch has a warranty problem, you would likely get a new movement installed, because there just aren't enough repaired movement to go back in watches. But eventually the stock of refurbished movements will grow so that the majority would be these, rather than new.

I know a watchmaker who works at an RSC and he confirmed if they get one back, and it needs anything other than simple regulation, they swap the movement out. They aren't allowed to take it apart and fix whatever the problem is. This is the plan going forward on these new movements.

Cheers, Al

Davidt · Dec 27, 2016

Archer
I don't know a ton about the new Tudor movements, and in fact no one really will other than Rolex. The reason is that no one will be servicing these, even the Rolex service centers. If there is a problem with the movement, or its due for servicing, the whole movement gets swapped. The old movements are sent back to the factory and serviced there, and then sent back out to be swapped into other watches. This is an increasing method of "service" in the industry.

This means that no spare parts will leave the factory, so there will be no channels for spares to get to the open market. You would be captive to Rolex for servicing in perpetuity. For that reason alone, the "in-house" movement version is worth a lot less to me personally, and I think many will feel this way as time goes on and they discover the service restrictions (I doubt they tell you this when you buy the watch). Now if you are the type who uses the factory for service anyway, this may mean nothing to you, but for many they don't want to use factory service, so it will be an ugly surprise when they find out their trusted watchmaker can't service the watch...

Cheers, Al

This is the reason I'd heavily favour the ETA version.

Fritz · Dec 27, 2016

So the independant watchmaker is slowly being shoved out of the way. One more art dies a slow death.

New Tudor Black Bay Inhouse

timjohans

Foo2rama

semper_shells

MPWATCH

gostang9

Jhh834

Foo2rama

Gwade

Foo2rama

timjohans

timjohans

timjohans

MPWATCH

semper_shells

Archer

Fritz

MPWATCH

Archer

Davidt

Fritz

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