Curious if people have looked / what they think of these newly listed a386s?

No.. I don't have pictures but there are pictures with the listings!

 

Well now you have a reference point for your valuations!

 

Haven't seen the eBay one. The other? Well overpriced, in my view.

 

Links or pictures from the listings might help.

 

http://chronocentric.com/forums/chronotrader/index.cgi?md=read;id=73635

http://chronocentric.com/forums/chronotrader/index.cgi?md=read;id=74481

 

this one is 14,500

 

http://chronocentric.com/forums/chronotrader/index.cgi?md=read;id=74070

 

apologies apologies for the lack of links and pictures. . i assume you guys spend all your waking hours looking for vintage zeniths

i get it now

 

Well, I sold the first one for a friend of mine on chronotrader. We did a bit of research and priced it accordingly at the lower to mid end of the price range that we found.

And see, it sold so I think it was a realistic price. I know of a few examples that were sold from a dealer with bracelet between 16000 and 17500 half a year to a year ago.

 

As always prices really depends on conditions, if the watch comes with box and/or papers/booklets, on which MK the A386 is, bracelet or strap, etc...
IMHO, MKI are the rarer and should be the most expensive, being not only rarer but also somewhat slightly more desirable being the first ones (generally speaking the first of something is slightly more collectible everything else equal than later iterations).
I would say in today's market a very good/excellent all correct MKI with box and papers will probably command 20k USD if not slightly more, but good luck finding it.
The GF bracelet WITH correct end links is probably worth 800/1000 USD by itself.
A later MK without box and papers and very good conditions is around 15k/16k.
A lot will also depends if the watch is original in all its parts, especially crown, hands (all of them, including subdials hands), tachy insert, etc... even one of these not correct will have some impact on the price as these parts are getting very hard to find.

 

Looks like I'm priced out of the market for these for good now... it's a shame because I love the watch, but I just can't see myself ever spending $15,000+ on one, even if I had the means.

Anyway I agree with @Tony C. that the asking price for the OF A386 is fairly optimistic. In my view the fact that all of the lume has fallen out of the hands is a big issue. Handsets for these have got to be basically unobtainium at this point. You could relume I guess but that's always a controversial subject with collectors.

 

I share your view in the prices of the watches itself @Mlafra but I'd disagree on the bracelets. I had the conversation earlier today when I was talking to another collector who is searching for a correct GF ladder with ZJ end links. We both haven't seen one for sale in the last 3 months which doesn't mean anything but is an indicator as we saw loads of UG and Heuer GFs. Second when you put the value of the watch in relation to other watch/bracelet combinations. Omega 145xxx/1039 (6-8k/1.5k), UG Compax/GF (20k/2.5k-3.5k), Heuer 2447/GF (10k-15k/4K) ... I don't see the 800 for a good Zenith GF with end links anymore although I'd love to buy one or two at that price.

 

This one sold at Christies a month ago:

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/...5816&sid=c9d5f926-0a98-4d1b-b517-f4d4d94b4fc0

It went for $13,750, if tax was paid on it then it was $15,000. If it was shipped abroad it cost the buyer $14,000 plus import duties. It was a later one, a "5th series" as defined by this post:

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f27/more-386-serial-numbers-dials-casebacks-forgeries-762836.html

I went to go see it in person. It wasn't a very attractive example. The dial, tachy, hour markers, and hands were all a bit scuffed up, some of the lume missing, the case was ok, not great.

I think the one I am offering on OF is a nicer example. If the hands had lume and it had a star crown I would be asking $18,500 for it, if it had a bracelet I'd be asking 20k. As many sellers have said before when offering a watch for sale, I enjoy the watch and still wear it from time to time, and am not in a rush to sell, etc, so I don't have any motivation to try and sell it for the 14k-15k range where some not quite as nice examples have sold.

A question for the Zenith experts, did all of the original A386's come with a star crown? Or could the crown on mine and this example be original?

https://shop.analogshift.com/collections/zenith-sold/products/zenith-el-primero-a386-1

Thanks!

 

Comparing a private sale with one sold through a major auction house (plus additional expenses) is not compelling.

What you would ask is irrelevant; it's what you would get that matters.

 

I am not sure that is the case. A buyer pays what a buyer pays for the watch. Are there more people, certainly different people, watching a Christie's auction than an OF sales post? Certainly. Are there plenty of watch buyers (like myself) that would buy from Christie's, watch forums, chrono24, ebay, lesser known auction houses, etc, without attaching a premium to one source vs the others? Certainly. Also, an auction price tells you what the 2nd highest bidder is willing to pay, not the highest bidder. So in theory if the high bidder finds a watch for sale, they could end up paying more than what they would for it at auction. There are deals to be had at auction, there are deals to be had at Christie's. I just found one last month on a 145.022-68. Ignoring public auction results (and taking into account total cost to the buyer) as reference points for valuations doesn't make sense to me. At all.

Anyways I was just explaining what I was basing my pricing on, as a couple people had stated they thought it was optimistically priced.

 

Major auctions of fashionable things typically bring higher prices than private sales, and for what should be fairly obvious reasons.

First, people who are inclined to participate in major auctions are typically less concerned with the additional expenses (e.g. buyer's premiums, home country taxes, etc.), even though such expenses can be quite high.

Secondly, and especially with with sought-after models, it only takes two bidders with very deep pockets to catalyze a hammer price that would not be realistic in a non-auction setting.

Thirdly, many who bid at auctions allow their emotions to get the better of them, and are willing to set aside cool, rational price evaluations.

Finally, shill bidding does happen at times.

I never suggested that public auction records should be ignored, but they are not a good, direct guide to the market value of most vintage watches.

 

i agree with that. i don't see why one wouldn't look at auction prints, and i'd just as easily buy a watch from christies as a board here if the piece is right

and now for no reason whatsoever. . a picture!

 

i actually find that auction prices. . .certainly of late. . while maybe at a premium to private sales, have been a substantial discounts to dealer offers especially in zenith heuer and the like

 

What is the meaning of "dealer offers"? That's a rhetorical question, as there is no evidence that they are necessarily receiving their full asking prices.

To be clear, I buy at auctions, and occasionally get exceptionally good deals. But one is not likely to find such deals on marquee pieces at major houses.