Hi!
What would you think of this early 60s example?
I love this case! It looks so sharp, and the hidden crown makes it even better!
Does it look original? 1424d movement, so apparently early 60s...
Seller wants 450€, no idea if it’s the current market...
Any thoughts are welcome!
Thanks

 

I absolutely agree with you about the case design (except the recessed crown bit, YMMV) - one of the all-time best of any brand IMO. And yes, it is that sharpness that is really appealing. That nick on the top right lug might be an issue maybe. But I am still scratching my head a bit (not an expert, you understand). First, by the early 1960s, I thought the KonTiki caseback had acquired the beautiful gold relief medallion version of its eponymous little ship - the shallow engraving on the OP example is one of the drawbacks of the 1950s original KonTikis for me, which are otherwise raved about by aficionados. I am a bit surprised to see the latter on an example of this date, and if it matters to you, you might want to hold out for the former. I am also vaguely bothered that the caseback serial is not inscribed beneath the hull of the boat rather than offset from its bow.
There's plenty of price info out there for you, but I'm thinking you might want to ask the seller a couple of questions on this one, and maybe look around a bit. The $500 price point probably offers some other good ones, albeit without the Gay Freres bracelet so often seen on these.

 

Thanks!
From what I found, this caseback is consistent with an early 130 IPT. The inner caseback is stamped with an A
https://www.veblenist.com/magazine/eterna-super-kontiki-1960-1971
this article had a similar caseback with a very close serial. If it’s consistent with the rest, it works for me!

the crown seems to be off though, smaller than the ones I see in examples and unsigned...How hard is it to source one, I wonder...

 

First generation Kontiki, with what many collectors consider to be the desirable, etched case back. The crown is not original, though, and not "correct" in terms of style, either.

 

yes, I see that now after looking at many examples...Is it hard to source an original crown alone? Is it a deal breaker?
The case seems with much better lines than most of the ones I see...And the dial looks clean to me
thanks!

 

Looks quite nice from what I can see. Too bad about the crown.

 

I might add, the Eterna recessed crown is an absolute to use, as well as being a bit off for a sportsman watch. About the case back, it may have scarcity on its side, but I'm still not sure its own mother would say it was better looking than the gold medallion!

 

To your first point – no, that is a small-sample reaction. I have owned more than a few that work very smoothly. I happen to prefer non-recessed crowns in general, but properly maintained Eterna versions tend to work well. As for it being "a bit off for a sportsman watch", well, it could just as easily be argued that it is actually preferable for sports watches, as it protects the crown from accidental damage!

Your second point is of course subjective, but in any case, I agree that most collectors are not favoring this variation on aesthetic grounds.

 

Sorry to OP for (I hope slightly entertaining) digression. Tony is a serious expert and should be listened to when you're collecting. I though am I guy with large fingers, unfortunately - my own recessed crown Eterna does work beautifully, but its owner is a bit of a klutz sometimes!

 

Thanks. You weren't entirely off-base, as if the mechanism isn't working well, the recessed crowns are a hassle to use. That's why I prefer non-recessed crowns, and prefer to buy the recessed ones only when I have a chance to test them in person.

 

I'd be a bit concerned about the staining in the center of the dial.

Best of both worlds, semi-recessed crown, 130TT, plain crown here is correct and original.

 

tou’re right, I didn’t even notice this staining! Thanks! It’s not far from where I live, maybe I should see it in person!
The one you show is very nice although I have a thing for dauphine hands!

there seem to be many dial variations, is there some kind of « collector guide » available somewhere, or a thread summarizing this for beginners?
Thanks again!

 

No database that I am aware of, but having been down a similar road of discovery on this model to you I can attest that after a few days (/months) of looking at Kontikis, you will recognise the main design cues:

Dial Font - Earlier font is beautiful (circa 1958), as in the example you shared and from X350 above - later it becomes squared off and often has '20' on the dial. Ensure the dial is original - its almost impossible to replicate the iconic 'Munsters' Eterna font.

Dials - So many variations. Many redials and suspect alterations. I settled my sights on a dark blue one, but the light grey is also incredible. Some of the later examples have some truly funky 'dial furniture' with markers resembling mayan temples, tombstones and henges.

Hands - Earlier dauphine (late 50s I think), later stick, with as was the case with some many late 50s into 60s watches (see also Certina DS, another favourite in a similar league of awesome).

Case - I think these remained relatively similar throughout production - the 130TT. The original crown seems to be slimmer on earlier models, and be 'chunkier' on later models with the 1489K movement. It always fits 'just right' and it easy to operate, so I would always hold out for one if possible.

Bracelet - I only have one watch on a bracelet in my collect, and it is this Kontiki. The Gay Freres is an absolute wonder, though do check the end links and clasp are in good order. They can stand a lot of use but not abuse. Even if you have no interest in bracelets (like me), I would hold out for one that comes with it, for completeness and to try something new. On the GF bracelet it really becomes the complete package.

Movement - Not an expert on this but similar to hands you can roughly get a date from the movement - 1424 early on, 1489K at the end of the run and so forth. ranftt.de is really useful for sense checking and examining production times. Like many manufacturers I believe Eterna used 'whatever was available' from the supply and likely some have been swapped out over the years. If you want fully original, worth sense checking the ages of the hands/dial to the movement.

Casebacks - etched earlier, sometimes plan with an engraving/dedication, later always with the gold medallion on a raft. Some serial numbers are lightly stamped on the caseback outer circumference. Condition of the medallion was key to me. While on my search I developed a grading system for the gold medallions:

5 - Raft and sail visible, just.
4 - The Eterna logo on the sail (5 dots) is visible.
3 - The waves are defined nicely.
2 - The raft's logs are defined.
1 - The thatch on the raft is intact.

Took me about a year but I finally found one to my liking, and after scouring the globe it was for sale from the original owner just a few miles away. I put this at a '1 minus' on the medallion scale, as it was worn but everything was visible. The owner received it new as a 16 year old and stopped wearing it 10 years later when they acquired a Rolex. Luckily a service yielded no surprises and its been in regular use since. I kept the original crystal with a few marks, but underneath the dial is perfect.







They are not rare, so I would advise holding out for a good one with all the colours/variations you really want. Should be sub £500, but factor in a service. Good luck!

 

Thanks @Spinakerr for a really helpful summary.
I wonder whether OP might like to look at the Private Sales forum today...

 

yes, thanks a lot for this, it’s very helpful!

 

yes, I saw the one on sale
Nice dial but the case is very different...
With the one I showed here, and @Spinakerr ‘s one, the case is a huge part of the appeal for me!

 

Last post for you, from 1962:

 

Interesting to see that the crown is not visible on this picture!

I talked a little to the seller of the one I showed first here. There is indeed a slight discoloration in the center of the dial and he understands the crown issue (he didn’t know apparently...)
Considering these flaws, he’s willing to lower his price to 300€.
Am I wrong to think it could be a nice beater for this price? (Movement works at +5s/day). Would finding a genuine crown be an impossible task? Any idea what size/ref it would be?
Thanks!

 

Always a personal decision! Comments here from three of the biggest hitters on the forum, and an essay from @Spinakerr that's taught me a few things, so you sure are well briefed. As one of the smallest hitters, I can say that a gentle hint from X350 that he's "a bit concerned" about dial staining would maybe hold me back. I never did encounter a self-repairing dial, no matter how low the price, if you see what I mean. As for the crown, in this price/availability range, my personal approach to getting the right one would be simply to find the right complete watch! (but YMMV)
Good luck!