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Mystery Lindbergh Angle Hour - help

  1. gefmey Sep 15, 2019

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    I'm posting some pictures of a vintage angle hour I've had for many years (25+). So far I have been unable to determine or get a definitive answer as to how or where this became a 24 hour movement. Longines has confirmed that the serial number corresponds to a 1936 manufacturing date for 11.68z movement and invoiced to Longines/Wittnaur New York in 1937. The only other information was that this was a very limited run, whatever that means. You can see from the pictures that a modification was done to get the hour hand to run a 1/2 speed to match the dial, but that really defeats the angle hour function. The dial does not look like a reproduction and is very sharp enamel, including the name. So I'm left with the question did the original owner have Wittnauer modify it, was it possibly done by a watchmaker, although the dial seems too good for a watchmaker, and this was definitely pre Asia days. All open questions, thoughts? lindbergh dial.JPG lindbergh mvt.JPG lindbergh back.JPG
     
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  2. Foo2rama Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can. Sep 15, 2019

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  3. gefmey Sep 15, 2019

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    Good to know, but I could really never figure out how to calculate ::confused2::
     
  4. Foo2rama Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can. Sep 15, 2019

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    TLDR: you might have something very valuable.
     
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  5. gefmey Sep 15, 2019

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    Yes, very true but only if I can get a definitive answer on the conversion. I've never seen or heard of another like it.
     
  6. ConElPueblo Sep 15, 2019

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    I have to say that the dial looks very clumsily made. I'd be shocked if it was the original condition.
     
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  7. gefmey Sep 15, 2019

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    I actually agree, it just seemed like a lot of work to go through. I have often thought about trying to find an original 12 hour dial, but I think I'd have a better chance finding Buzz Aldrins watch :)
     
  8. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Sep 15, 2019

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    IN my experience big watch companies don’t do “One of’s”, unless for a very special customer.

    Easy for a watchmaker to change gears to convert to 24 hour watch. What I don’t know is whether parts to do a conversion were available back then.

    Longines would never allow a dial that poor to leave their factory.
    gatorcpa
     
  9. gefmey Sep 15, 2019

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    It's what I have long suspected, but it always is a good conversation starter. I'm wondering if there's anyway Longines could provide a modern service or replacement dial. I have contacted them but so far......
     
  10. gefmey Sep 15, 2019

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    Of course when you look at this one, from a Bonhams auction, the dial doesn't look much better. Although it could just be a bad redial. Screen Shot 2019-09-15 at 12.30.03 PM.png
     
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  11. gefmey Sep 15, 2019

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    Agree, I never believed it was a Longines "one of", but it was possible at that time that Wittnaur could have converted it for a customer. Unfortunately there's no way to know that now. Seiko or Bulova probably trashed all the old files.
     
  12. gefmey Sep 15, 2019

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    The movement # of the Bonhams watch is also less than 15 away from mine
     
  13. Syrte MWR Tech Support Dept Sep 15, 2019

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  14. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Sep 15, 2019

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    Please explain. Don’t think Seiko or Bulova ever owned Longines.

    Longines now owned by Swatch. Their records are more complete than most.

    Service dial supply has long been exhausted. Watch was made over 70 years ago.
    gatorcpa
     
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  15. squarelug Sep 15, 2019

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    Yeah that's never going to happen! Unforuntately!

    I would keep wearing this in good health though - it is quite something!
     
  16. gefmey Sep 15, 2019

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    I'm curious, since I'm not really up on watch making, what would you change to make the hour hand run 1/2 speed? One of the wheels under the dial?
     
  17. gefmey Sep 15, 2019

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    You would think that, but my latest response from Longines is much more cursory than one I got back in the 80's (by fax) from Longines/Wittnauer which gave me the exact manufacturing/completion date as well as date it was invoiced to US distributor. At least the invoice dates matched. I did send an inquiry to the online number. The response leads me to believe they really don't know what a manual wind watch is there ::screwloose::
     
  18. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Sep 15, 2019

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    Not sure I agree. I recently bought an older Longines, and not only did Longines reply by email within 24 hours, they then sent a paper certificate a couple of weeks later, both with delivery date and country.
    gatorcpa
     
  19. gefmey Sep 15, 2019

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    No, I agree, they were very responsive, but just not a lot of specific information other than manufacture date and ship to US. I had originally gotten information that the 11.68z movement was made only in a single run and in limited numbers
     
  20. gefmey Sep 15, 2019

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    Longines sold Wittnauer years ago to Bulova, and Wittnauer & Bulova names now owned by Seiko. When the watch was made, Wittnauer was Longines agent in the US and so Longines did not have any information of whether the watch was modified after it left Longines Switzerland and was sold by Wittnauer.