My 1950s Seamaster - is it genuine

Xyzzy · May 26, 2019

I purchased this Seamaster about 15 years ago, basically because i liked the look. I posted some pictures today on the Facebook group trying to find out a little more about it and the general feeling is that its not a genuine watch. Itd a Cal 471 and serial number in 1956, just wondered if anyone here could provide some guidance?
Thanks in advance
Rob.

X350 XJR · May 26, 2019

Your watch is perfectly genuine, however the dial has been refinished in a style which never appeared on this model.

You bought it because you liked it, so wear it and enjoy.

JwRosenthal · May 26, 2019

Yeah, the dial is what is referred to as a fantasy dial- it was never issued by Omega and is a modern contrivance. There are sellers in the east that take original Omegas and redo the dials like this. They are all over eBay. They look cool, but if you are a nut for originality then you wouldn’t want one. Your watch would have looked like this from the factory-

As you have been enjoying it, continue to enjoy it. If you want a completely original Omega, then hang around and welcome to the conversation.

Xyzzy · May 26, 2019

Thanks for the comments guys, appreciate the honest feedback. Im more than happy to wear it and enjoy, i didn't pay very much for it so no great loss, it just seems a lot of trouble for someone to go to to reproduce the dial, is there that much money in them?. I will hang around here too as i have a modern Speedmaster a Railmaster Trilogy and a Seamaster 2254.50 to compliment it.
Thanks again.
Rob.

DaveK · May 26, 2019

The redial business in India would make a fascinating topic for a documentary. I imagine that one or two people at the top of the redial-pyramid make some good money on their venture. I count my blessings that I have the luxury to spend time and money on historically correct watches, when the folks making these redialled pieces are likely making so very little. I wonder if they would collectively make so much more money if they just restored watches instead of turning them into horrid ones.

JwRosenthal · May 26, 2019

X Xyzzy
Thanks for the comments guys, appreciate the honest feedback. Im more than happy to wear it and enjoy, i didn't pay very much for it so no great loss, it just seems a lot of trouble for someone to go to to reproduce the dial, is there that much money in them?. I will hang around here too as i have a modern Speedmaster a Railmaster Trilogy and a Seamaster 2254.50 to compliment it.
Thanks again.
Rob.

Well I think you should start a new thread and introduce yourself! Of course pictures of your toys are mandatory

Xyzzy · May 26, 2019

I agree its fascinating. How is it done, if i look through a loupe it looks printed, but ive never seen another red one. Lots of effort for a low number of products?

Xyzzy · May 26, 2019

JwRosenthal
Well I think you should start a new thread and introduce yourself! Of course pictures of your toys are mandatory

Thanks, I will do.

Donn Chambers · May 26, 2019

My first Omega was a fantasy redial like that one, except in black, not red, and with a manual wind 286. I knew going in it wasn’t real, but the price Was good. I enjoyed it for years until i sold it (with full disclosure of course).

It maY be a fantasy redial, but they are really well done. Does your have luminous markers? Mine did, and they were clearly tritium and still glowed very brightly.

JwRosenthal · May 26, 2019

My attitude is if you have a decent case/movement and a trashed dial, then I’m all for giving a sad watch a new life. The slippery slope is when shady sellers market these watches as genuine Omega products and the uneducated believe it. If you know going in, then awesome-they make for a cool unusual watch with a great movement.

Xyzzy · May 27, 2019

Donn Chambers
My first Omega was a fantasy redial like that one, except in black, not red, and with a manual wind 286. I knew going in it wasn’t real, but the price Was good. I enjoyed it for years until i sold it (with full disclosure of course).

It maY be a fantasy redial, but they are really well done. Does your have luminous markers? Mine did, and they were clearly tritium and still glowed very brightly.

Hello Donn,

Yes it does have luminous markers and they do glow well. Im amazed that anyone would go to this trouble to redial this watch, I bought it about 15 years ago so it was before the current craze.

Do you know how the dials are prduced, it looks very nicely printed?

All the best
Rob.

Xyzzy · May 27, 2019

JwRosenthal
My attitude is if you have a decent case/movement and a trashed dial, then I’m all for giving a sad watch a new life. The slippery slope is when shady sellers market these watches as genuine Omega products and the uneducated believe it. If you know going in, then awesome-they make for a cool unusual watch with a great movement.

Thanks, it was purported as "real" when i bought it, i cant remember exactly how much i paid but it wasn't silly money. I don't think i would ever sell it, i wear it occasionally and to be honest im quite attached to it. If i ever decide to sell it would be with a total disclosure.
Thanks again
Rob

Mouse_at_Large · May 27, 2019

You bought it for a sum you are comfortable with, it's given you many years of enjoyment, and you still like it. As far as I can see that's all that matters 👍

Xyzzy · May 27, 2019

Mouse_at_Large
You bought it for a sum you are comfortable with, it's given you many years of enjoyment, and you still like it. As far as I can see that's all that matters 👍

Hi Mouse,
Completely agree, just keen to find out more about the dial production now.
Regards
Rob

JwRosenthal · May 27, 2019

Many of them were coming out of India, and not only on Omegas. I have seen them on Encicar and West End watches and a few other brands that were popular in the east back in the day. There are several variations and colors but they all had a “mil” style theme.
Many were actually attractive and some, very well done. What I appreciated about them was that they weren’t trying to copy an Omega design so they were easy to spot. What is disturbing is that many of them made it to the US and now I’m
seeing them pop up on eBay from US sellers as being original watches.
I agree that it would be intersting to do an article/documentary on the watch rehab/flip industry in the east and follow the process from acquisition to sale.

JwRosenthal · May 27, 2019

And apparently there is real money to be made here:

Dead Link/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/192929501308

Pics and description for posterity- listing is at $999 USD. They do say the dial has been repainted so they aren’t fraudulent on that.

“All of our vintage pre - owned watches are authentic watches that have been restored, polished and serviced to perfection by our master watch technicians.Each of these items is a "One of A kind" product that has been verified to be an original vintage of its brand. All of our items are in immaculate condition, a classic watch to be loved and passed down. Our team has sold thousands of timepieces worldwide. Buy with confidence”

Xyzzy · May 27, 2019

Thanks Jw, Ive been looking with interest at Ebay since yesterday evening. Would i be correct in saying this one is equally a redial too? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264334648479?ViewItem=&item=264334648479 In which case i have learned something.....

Regards
Rob.

Xyzzy · May 27, 2019

JwRosenthal
And apparently there is real money to be made here:

Dead Link/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/192929501308

Pics and description for posterity- listing is at $999 USD. They do say the dial has been repainted so they aren’t fraudulent on that.

“All of our vintage pre - owned watches are authentic watches that have been restored, polished and serviced to perfection by our master watch technicians.Each of these items is a "One of A kind" product that has been verified to be an original vintage of its brand. All of our items are in immaculate condition, a classic watch to be loved and passed down. Our team has sold thousands of timepieces worldwide. Buy with confidence”

That guy seven or eight almost identical black dialed Seamasters of various cals!! Either very unlucky or very suspicious. https://www.ebay.com/sch/fusionelem...08&ul_noapp=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

JwRosenthal · May 27, 2019

X Xyzzy
Thanks Jw, Ive been looking with interest at Ebay since yesterday evening. Would i be correct in saying this one is equally a redial too? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264334648479?ViewItem=&item=264334648479 In which case i have learned something.....

Regards
Rob.

For posterity, also post a pic of the watch you link so when the eBay link disappears the thread is still relevant- this is the one you linked:

And this is what it looked like originally

It seems they are trying to mimick the Ranchero look, not really that close but in spirit at least. There are some seriously good copies of the Ranchero out there, some that have fooled forum members -many threads on OF that will occupy hours of reading but it’s an intersting read.

Like you I can understand trying to do a really good copy of rare watches to get real money, but it’s these lower end models that I find intersting as they are aren’t highly profitable...but I guess I’d tou sell them en mass and the cost of labor is cheap, there is profit to be made.
This reminds me a lot of the Tudor Red Ranger lore- I own one (and my watchmaker has verified that it is a Tudor dial, it is a Tudor case, it is a tudor movement, hands and lume are era correct, fonts all match etc). Many say the watch never existed and it was a contrivance to make money...but when the “fakes” were coming out, an actual Tudor Prince was only worth about $250..why would someone go to all that trouble for a $250 watch?!!

JwRosenthal · May 27, 2019

X Xyzzy
That guy seven or eight almost identical black dialed Seamasters of various cals!! Either very unlucky or very suspicious. https://www.ebay.com/sch/fusionelem...08&ul_noapp=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

I think this is one of the vendors for these things. He’s listed in the Uk, and is either sourcing his dials from the east and building them himself, is based out for the east and using a UK eBay address, or is a new variety of western based chop-shop

My 1950s Seamaster - is it genuine

Xyzzy

X350 XJR

JwRosenthal

Xyzzy

DaveK

JwRosenthal

Xyzzy

Xyzzy

Donn Chambers

JwRosenthal

Xyzzy

Xyzzy

Mouse_at_Large

Xyzzy

JwRosenthal

JwRosenthal

Xyzzy

Xyzzy

JwRosenthal

JwRosenthal

Similar threads

Can anyone identify this watch, is it genuine?

Seamaster ref. 166.010 cal. 562 - is it genuine and original looking?

Grandad watch… Is it genuine omega?

Very tempted by this one. Is it genuine?

Seamaster black dial. Is it genuine?

Please Advise! 1950s Seamaster Automatic Black Textured Dial Cal. 490