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Movement spacer/ holder/ ring for cal 285, ref 224106 (38mm)

  1. Romega May 20, 2021

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    Hi Folks

    I have this 1947 "jumbo" Universal chronograph. Chronograph hand and movement ring/ spacer/ holder are missing (as you understand, I do not know the correct name for this part :)

    Any ideas where these parts can be found?
    (and yes - I have been searching the net for å while)

    Kind regards

    Dag

    6F45B2FD-85A2-480A-B8AC-28D3AAB790F5.jpeg 205C24A4-8DC7-44AB-B532-68459CC4304A.jpeg 2398EAD0-1AFF-4F68-82BE-04CB5F7271DC.jpeg 8EC4A982-AAD5-4CCA-B0F8-2B980A8BDDC7.jpeg
     
    Edited May 20, 2021
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  2. bgrisso May 20, 2021

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    Hi Dag,
    my first question is what is the factory configuration for a 224106. A quick search online has yielded 3 different cases. Have you done research on this reference to understand that your caseback is matching the midcase and that a cal 285 is the factory configuration? If so, please provide some examples if you can, including the mvmt, so we can see what the retaining ring (if indeed it should have one), looks like.
    I might have a cal 285 chrono sweep available, but the issue will be length, can you measure and see what you feel looks right, center hole to tip, in mm?
    regards
    Ben
     
  3. mikeo1 May 20, 2021

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    Correct spacer rings are a difficult item to locate for any watch--so many exact dimensions have to be met-

    Maybe you can check this as a reference https://www.iconeek.com/universaljumbocompax22410.html. and https://www.highlifewatches.com/sto..._Uni-Compax_'Spillman'_case_-_Ref._22409.html

    What puzzles me is that there are no movement rings on either example (I actually think a movement ring on a 285 cased watch would be a bit unusual) and the presence of reliefs directly across from the crown as well as near the minute jumper on both examples which provides for screws to support the movement in the case. I do see a relief (but without a screw hole) near the recorder and I don't see a relief across from the crown? Any chance the movement, while the correct caliber, is not original to the case?
     
  4. Radiumpassion May 20, 2021

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    Nice one! Is it connected to the norwegian alpinist Bjarne Arentz?
     
  5. Romega May 20, 2021

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    Hi and thanks for input and interest :)
    First - yes I bought this watch in the late 90's from Bjarne Arentz relatives. Mr Arentz was participant in the Olympic Winter games in St. Mortiz in 1948 and in World Championship in Aspen in 1950.He won several national titles in downhill, slalom, alpine combination and water skiing (!). He grew up in the Holmenkollen area in Oslo, and studied engineering an Germany. He passed away in 2017 at the age of 89

    So - to the watch: The reference number indicates 2 (steel) 2 (chronograph) 4 (caliber 285). I think the case is correct to the movement and the case. However there are several variations (3 reg chronos, rectangular pushers, different case shapes). Cannot be sure.

    There might not suppose to be be a "spacer" or a movement ring. The watch is currently at my watchmaker, I have given him the challenge to sort things out regarding the "loose" movement :) I also discovered a broken "arm" just below where the caliber 285 is stamped. Anyone knows the name or part number ?

    The length of the chrono sweep should be around 16 mm (given the diameter of the 285 is 31,7 mm
     
  6. mikeo1 May 20, 2021

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  7. bgrisso May 20, 2021

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    the 4 in 224 could indicate either a 285 or 287

    case references from this time period do not come in multiple case styles for the same reference number, they are fixed

    the fact that we are seeing multiple case styles for the same reference is a red flag and means some of them should be franken. I'm not aware of 224106 being a Spillman reference, but I have not researched. 22410 is, and I am dubious that 224106 is being interpreted as a sub reference of 22410 (ie 22410-6), my guess is it's a 224106 caseback on a difference reference spillman case, but again, this is just my first guess, I have not researched. I am also thinking less likely that 224106 is a square button reference. So I think perhaps yours is an original configuration, but that's just a gut impression, needs research.

    My other immediate guess is that a movement spacer is not used in this reference, but again, needs research.

    I will check the 285 chrono sweep, however I don't think you can go off the movement diameter, you need to go off the dial diameter, which can be larger, smaller, or same as the movement diameter. In this oversized case, with a midsized caliber, I wonder if the dial is larger than the movement, seems like it would be?
     
    Edited May 20, 2021
  8. mikeo1 May 20, 2021

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    "bgrisso, post: 1789578, member: 7654"]the 4 in 224 could indicate either a 285 or 287"

    Bgrisso
    makes a very good point here; the cal 285 has a 31.7mm diameter; cal 287 is 33.2mm maybe fits your case better
     
  9. Mark020 not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawer May 21, 2021

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  10. Radiumpassion May 21, 2021

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    There is a mention about a dust cover......
     
  11. Romega May 21, 2021

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    Thanks @Mark020 @Radiumpassion @bgrisso and @mikeo1

    Dustcover! That might tighten the movement to the case. Very observant of you @Radiumpassion !
    But - has anyone seen one of these with a dustcover ?

    I have also found several 224106 with caliber 285 with middle cases similar to mine. But also other strange/ suspicious configs. Also the movement in my watch fits the case in diameter, but it is not "tight". A caliber 287 with a diameter of 33,2 mm (1,5mm bigger) would not fit in my case.

    As the watch is at my watchmaker, I cannot measure the dial/ estimate length of missing hand.


    https://www.iconeek.com/universaljumbocompax22410.html
    upload_2021-5-21_9-20-24.png



    https://watchcharts.com/listing/204...ograph-universal-geneve-compax-285-ref-224106
    upload_2021-5-21_9-22-50.png


    https://www.chrono24.sg/universalgenve/universal-geneve-uni-compax-jumbo--id19397720.htm#gref
    upload_2021-5-21_9-24-0.png
     
    Edited May 21, 2021
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  12. Romega May 21, 2021

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  13. bgrisso May 21, 2021

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    I was thinking would be nice to have a UG archives pic for this reference to know factory details on the case, but was being dumb and looking under Compax instead of Uni Compax. The factory pic from Sala is actually supplied in one of the links above, and puts to rest these questions. As suspected your case is correct, the other variations such as the Spillman case and the Medico are franken. People seem to have a lot of fun putting together different versions of this reference for some reason, maybe because it's oversized.

    I doubt your watch had a spacer or dust cover. I think perhaps its very simple, you are just missing the case screws/clamps to hold the movement in place. A competent watch maker should be able to sort this out for you. In some other references that I've had that were similarish, with a 285, there were two case screws, one that went "down" and one that went "up", and sort of wedged the movement in place, if that makes sense. I'm not using the proper terminology, but hopefully you get the idea. I had one of them shipped one time and when it arrived the movement was rattling around in the case and when I opened the case back it almost fell out (held in by stem). I was freaking out thinking something had broken, but realized that with a few turns of the above two screws that I mentioned, it was completely fine. (Again, these are just informed guesses, I don't know for sure).

    Keep in touch via PM if the 285 sweep hand that I have will work for this watch.
     
    224106.jpg
  14. bgrisso May 21, 2021

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    PS I would get the hands relumed to match the dial
     
  15. vujen May 21, 2021

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    I have this exact reference and yes, there's a dustcover inside.
     
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  16. mikeo1 May 21, 2021

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    Makes sense as there doesn't appear to have any reliefs or holes for case screws-
     
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  17. bgrisso May 21, 2021

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    always best to have first hand knowledge.

    OF solves another mystery ;)
     
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  18. Mark020 not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawer May 22, 2021

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    I have a 224105 with a 285 and a dust cover :)
     
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  19. Romega May 22, 2021

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    Thanks all!!

    Case closed

    (pun intended)
     
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