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  1. Brook Nov 10, 2018

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    Many of you will know Carlo S as a Omega collector. A few years ago he sold off a number of his Omega’s and
    started collecting Heuer chronographs. As a long time Heuer Carrera collector and owning/owned some rare examples like the 2447P, 2447 Yachting, 3147 Indy, the Skipperera was always on the bucket list. With reportedly less than 10 examples, when one comes up, interest is high.
    Carlo was apparently interested in the one that is available at the Geneva Christie’s Auction. Here is his posting on OTD.
    http://chronocentric.com/forums/heuer/index.cgi?page=1;md=read;id=94962

    Brook
     
  2. MaiLollo Nov 10, 2018

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    I’ve read the thread, and I find it shocking on Christie’s part. Not only they photoshopped the dial to erase a scratch and change the lume color, but they also changed the finish of the watch on their pictures.
    The watch does not need it, and I feel like it should be criminal
     
    Syrte, queriver, chronoboy64 and 3 others like this.
  3. Tony C. Ωf Jury member Nov 10, 2018

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    Inexcusable behavior, but worse yet, a microcosm of the increasingly fraudulent nature of many businesses and markets around the world.

    It may seem far from a vintage watch auction, but consider, to use a particularly outrageous example, that Central Banks have been directly propping up stock markets with "money" created out of thin air in recent years.

    The expression Caveat Emptor takes on increasing significance with every passing day.
     
    Chye, Njnjcfp88, Spacefruit and 2 others like this.
  4. kingsrider Thank you Sir! May I have another? Nov 10, 2018

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    Will Hodinkee add to this story? Their platform is the correct venue for airing out this kind of malfeasance. As they have in essence become part of the story/promotion they bear a responsibility to further report. Will they?. If not, why not?. If they do not follow up, I have my suspicions why.


    PS they (Hodinkee) should be aware by now. This is being discussed in their comments section.

    https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/bring-a-loupe-november-9-2018
     
    Edited Nov 10, 2018
    sdre, queriver, chronoboy64 and 2 others like this.
  5. Dan S Nov 10, 2018

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    Wow, it doesn't even look like the same watch. Can you imagine bidding on a watch you thought was in pristine condition, based on a photo, and then receiving that actual damaged specimen?
     
  6. Rochete Nov 10, 2018

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    Looks like fraud.
     
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  7. wkimmd Nov 10, 2018

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    I love the fact that they have all these disclaimers in their "Salesroom Notice" to try to save themselves from any liability (as in, WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ACCURACY OF THE CONTENTS OF THIS LISTING)
    WK
     
  8. padders Oooo subtitles! Nov 10, 2018

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    Salesroom are not the auction house, they are an aggregator of lisitngs. How would they be responsible? It would be the auction house and the auction house only. Would you sue ebay? Good luck with that.

    If you don't understand how it works, don't bid.
     
    BlueBoy likes this.
  9. wkimmd Nov 10, 2018

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    Wow, aggressive much? If I misspoke, my sincerest apologies for offending your senses. I meant "Saleroom" as in the Christie's Genevasaleroom. I am referring to the "Terms and Conditions" of the Christie's Geneva saleroom for this specific auction...not "the-saleroom.com" the listing aggregator that I assume that you are referring to. As such an expert, you must understand what a saleroom notice is, that is put out by each auction house for each auction that is specific to that auction and location, right? That is what I am referring to. And I was referring to Christie's specific Geneva saleroom notice that says (and I apologize for paraphrasing the first time around) that says "We do not provide any guarantee in relation to a nature of a lot..."

    Again, my sincerest apologies
     
    sdre, BlueBoy and Syrte like this.
  10. padders Oooo subtitles! Nov 10, 2018

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    My senses accept your apology and thank you for your clarification.
     
    Njnjcfp88 likes this.
  11. M'Bob Nov 10, 2018

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    True, and yet businesses are made up of people. So it's not just the plunging standards of businesses: there seems to also be a crisis of personal ethics.
     
    Tony C. likes this.
  12. BlackTalon This Space for Rent Nov 10, 2018

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    I'm pretty sure that crisis has been ongoing since the beginning of mankind...
     
  13. connieseamaster Nov 10, 2018

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    So eBay is more honest than Christie's. Nice
     
  14. greenecollector Nov 10, 2018

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    Yes, the small print is always interesting reading and in this day & age I find it quite surprising this can happen since the auction house is responsible for the listing and images etc, so how they absolve themselves is a mystery...

     
  15. greenecollector Nov 10, 2018

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    But as said, if you don't like it, don't bid I guess...
     
  16. Wuza72 Nov 10, 2018

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    Long live Photoshop,
    you can also polish a watch case with it ...but seriously, it's a disgrace.
     
  17. shishy www.hpmor.com Nov 10, 2018

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    I have seen plenty of pictures that were air brushed/touched up in some capacity -- not always the case, as there are some auction houses (e.g. WoK) and sellers in general that are honest in their description/pictures. However I've felt that the more prominent ones tend to hide flaws instead. This is a great example of one getting too greedy.

    I wonder if they were just being dumb, or if they figured that even if it was revealed, the damage to their reputation and ability to sell would be trivial.

    In the end, if this coming out doesn't affect their sales, I also wouldn't expect them to stop doing it.

    Buyer beware indeed.
     
  18. Syrte MWR Tech Support Dept Nov 10, 2018

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    I find this sentence interesting in Carlo’s post on OTD, when he talks about Hodinkee:
    « I don't blame Isaac on his reporting, since he doesn't have the time to ask for every detailed report for each watch »
    Hello? The writer writes about watches on auction and doesn’t have the time to seek a condition report for the watches he’s writing about? What’s he doing then ?? Just selling his magazine by blabering about something he actually has not found out about? ::confused2::
     
    Mark020, CesarCO, rcs914 and 17 others like this.
  19. Wuza72 Nov 10, 2018

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    OK I can partly understand it, because you obviously need a lot of time and a real buying interest to get the detailed information.

    But on the other hand I agree with you, because it seems to be common practice, the contributions here clarify this and I cannot imagine that professionals have less knowledge than private people.

    But today seems to be the day of revelation, at least for me as a Rookie :)

    https://omegaforums.net/threads/spe...-105-003-on-auction.84856/page-2#post-1095920

    Because obviously there is so much concentrated knowledge here that you could write a book and that would be a bestseller.
     
  20. Wuza72 Nov 10, 2018

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    By the way,
    thats the reason for my Membership !
     
    kingsrider likes this.