Luminous Dauphine hands restoration

[Dr. Arnaud]

hello,
I have sourced some hands in the hope of restoring them and replacing the ones from my Seamaster 2767 that are very pitted.
I essentially got them for free, so I am willing to try few restoration methods on them, including bathing them in acid, polishing, replacing the lume etc. Any recommendations? I have never done that before but I am very aware of the presence of radium on these hands.
Here are the watch and the replacement hands.

 

[kaplan]

I used ammonia on old hands and the results were incredible, correct me if I'm wrong but maybe these aren't coated?

Use ammonia on anything modern and it strips of coating super fast

Seconds hand I guess be more careful than the hours/minutes, that one looks coated

 

[gbesq]

If the old luminous compound contains radium, you need to be very careful not to expose yourself to any airborne lume dust that could result from working on the hands. Keep in mind that radium is highly radioactive and has a half life of 1,600 years. I would leave this work to a qualified watchmaker or, at the very least, consult with someone who has done this before and can advise you of the proper way to do it safely.

 

[Dr. Arnaud]

gbesq

If the old luminous compound contains radium, you need to be very careful not to expose yourself to any airborne lume dust that could result from working on the hands. Keep in mind that radium is highly radioactive and has a half life of 1,600 years. I would leave this work to a qualified watchmaker or, at the very least, consult with someone who has done this before and can advise you of the proper way to do it safely.

As a scientist by training, I am used to work with dangerous compounds. Planning to use some serious PPE that include safety glasses, gloves, hair nets, FFP2 masks and labcoat. I am planning to get rid of the radium by scrapping it inside a safety bag. I will do that outside my house. I will then transfer the hands into a solution to dissolve whatever is left and dump the solution appropriately.

Edited: Nov 27, 2023

 

[rendo]

I'm not an expert, but a tip I found helpful is to scrape off the radium while the hands are submerged inside a small jar of alcohol. It does a great job of controlling the dust. You also want to be careful with radium dust that may be stuck inside the dial. A UV flashlight should help you spot those.

It could be the photos you posted, but the replacement hands you are showing above don't look luminous to me.

I recently had a set of hands in similar condition to yours. The company I sent them in for re-plating told me that the seconds hand was made out of steel, so it could not be re-plated. The hour and minute hands look better after the process, but the pitting is still visible.

Good luck!

 

[Dr. Arnaud]

rendo

I'm not an expert, but a tip I found helpful is to scrape off the radium while the hands are submerged inside a small jar of alcohol. It does a great job of controlling the dust. You also want to be careful with radium dust that may be stuck inside the dial. A UV flashlight should help you spot those.

It could be the photos you posted, but the replacement hands you are showing above don't look luminous to me.

I recently had a set of hands in similar condition to yours. The company I sent them in for re-plating told me that the seconds hand was made out of steel, so it could not be re-plated. The hour and minute hands look better after the process, but the pitting is still visible.

Good luck!

Yes, scraping the lume inside a liquid should prevent any airborne dust.I will probably let the hand soak in water for 1 or 2 hours, then proceed with the scraping. I can do that inside a dish that will be placed into a bag.
Thanks for your advices.

 

[sheepdoll]

I have a project which involves repairing some damaged hands.

Some of this is in the archives. https://omegaforums.net/threads/a-novel-way-to-restore-color-to-hands.156641/

I did get a Geiger counter as it made me feel better. The dropoff is cm away from the hands. I also second the suggestion to clean the hands under alcohol (not available in the state of california.) Or Naptha (lighter fluid) which was the last time I checked (aka goo off) De ionized distilled water is probably the best as that really is the universal solvent.

Be careful with dials as the above solvents will destroy them. Also it may not be advisable to put radium parts into storage containers plastic bags etc. (and if so open the container outside in a well ventilated area.) The radium byproduct is radon gas, and collects in tight spaces. This gas is also naturally occurring in some parts of the US.

Ironically the best way to store such thing may be in open trays with good airflow. Not that any of us would ever have much to measure.

 

[DON]

My refinished told me if the hands are too pitted. They’re not suitable for restoration. Also they’re brass plated, so any sanding will remove the plating.

he restored hands for me in fair condition. Replated and relumed

 

[watchyouwant]

Try that yourself ....
Silvering
The dial silvering process involves two steps – application of the silver chloride, followed by cream of tartar. The silver chloride reacts with the brass dial; the copper in the brass trades places with the silver in the silver chloride. Applying the silver chloride is easy – a damp cotton ball dipped in the silver chloride powder and gentle rubbing facilitates the reaction in a minute or two.

The results after application of the silver chloride are disappointing – the color is slightly brown. The second step – cream of tartar – brightens the silver. The application of the cream of tartar is the same as the silver chloride – a damp cotton ball and a gentle rubbing motion. The silvering sneaks up on you – it is hard to notice at first, but comparing it to an unsilvered component reveals the transformation.

 

[Dr. Arnaud]

Hello,
Here is an update. They don’t look brand new for sure, but I am kind of happy with the result. I have mixed some coffee to the lume so that it looks old and not too white.

 

[Dr. Arnaud]

Freshly installed

 

[PerJ]

Nicely done.

 

[wagudc]

It is quite the improvement. The hands have cleaned up nicely, but still have a bit of patina to match the rest of the watch. An ideal outcome IMHO. The watch looks really nice!

 

[UWG]

A very authentic look. Absolutely well done, congrats!

 

[Dr. Arnaud]

Dang! It is so bright

 

[kaplan]

This was suggested to me on the watchmaking thread, it matches the green color of Tritium lume I match: https://shop.kremerpigments.com/us/shop/pigments/56500-phosphorescent-pigment-green.html

Your hands definitely look awesome on the watch but I think it needs a tad bit more coffee

 

[Dr. Arnaud]

I mixed some coffee directly into the mix. Should I now paint over the hands with a brush and coffee?

 

[kaplan]

I actually did that once and got very good results with it, it provided better shading than just a premix - but ymmv

Mainly the initial issue is the end result always being so much more lighter than the mix