Looking for a UK watchmaker

alex_b

STS were really expensive when I got a quote recently.

My Zenith Sporto is with Michael Swift up in Scotland at the moment. He came well recommended and is well priced. I’ll share a personal view when I get it back.

Danwales

I have also found his prices so reasonable that I have had to question how some other watch repairers can justify charging over £100 more for a routine service.

Ll

ChrisN

I see that @padders called me out earlier in the thread (thanks!) but, I'm not taking on additional customers so I wouldn't be able to help.



I see that Michael Swift has prices in the £45 and up bracket. I would say that any watch will take at least 4 hours to: book in; agree work; strip and clean movement and case; reassemble all; adjustments to the running; testing and packing up to post back. So, even if Michael has amortized all his equipment, which I suspect he has, then he is charging minimum wage for the work - about £10 per hour in UK.

Of course, if you've just set up and are amortizing £50000 in equipment and training (1000-1500 hours) over three years, that would add another £10 per hour so, twice the price straight away and you are still just working for minimum wage. There are always business expenses including insurance, computers, web hosting and so on, so overheads of £5-10 per hour are easy to see, even after that three year period.

I know that garages charge £50-100 for mechanics and the training is probably similar so, you'd hope a watchmaker would be able to earn significantly more than minimum wage, say £25 per hour. Add on the equipment and you're at £35 per hour so, three and a half times what Michael is charging. I don't know him but he appears to be towards the end of his career and lives in a relatively cheap area so he might be happy with the much lower amount as he has made his money already.

I understand that everyone wants a bargain but to be surprised that people doing a job that is not that easy would want a better standard of living than minimum wage is, to me, unrealistic. Try asking for a simple oil change for the car, let's say that's an hour, and can you get that for £10 plus oil?

Against that, a lot of people say that they are stunned by the work that watchmakers do, so should it really be for minimum wage?

Going back to my first statement, I'm won't be taking on any new work at all soon so, I have no axe to grind here. I would say that when Michael retires, where will you go? Who is going to bother coming into watchmaking when, for some, the attitude is that you should work for minimum wage and you can get that stacking shelves in a supermarket without any of the hassle of running your own company.

No criticism of Michael Swift is implied here at all - he can work and charge what he wants, it's a free country.

Good luck, Chris

ChrisN

I see that @padders called me out earlier in the thread (thanks!) but, I'm not taking on additional customers so I wouldn't be able to help.



I see that Michael Swift has prices in the £45 and up bracket. I would say that any watch will take at least 4 hours to: book in; agree work; strip and clean movement and case; reassemble all; adjustments to the running; testing and packing up to post back. So, even if Michael has amortized all his equipment, which I suspect he has, then he is charging minimum wage for the work - about £10 per hour in UK.

Of course, if you've just set up and are amortizing £50000 in equipment and training (1000-1500 hours) over three years, that would add another £10 per hour so, twice the price straight away and you are still just working for minimum wage. There are always business expenses including insurance, computers, web hosting and so on, so overheads of £5-10 per hour are easy to see, even after that three year period.

I know that garages charge £50-100 for mechanics and the training is probably similar so, you'd hope a watchmaker would be able to earn significantly more than minimum wage, say £25 per hour. Add on the equipment and you're at £35 per hour so, three and a half times what Michael is charging. I don't know him but he appears to be towards the end of his career and lives in a relatively cheap area so he might be happy with the much lower amount as he has made his money already.

I understand that everyone wants a bargain but to be surprised that people doing a job that is not that easy would want a better standard of living than minimum wage is, to me, unrealistic. Try asking for a simple oil change for the car, let's say that's an hour, and can you get that for £10 plus oil?

Against that, a lot of people say that they are stunned by the work that watchmakers do, so should it really be for minimum wage?

Going back to my first statement, I'm won't be taking on any new work at all soon so, I have no axe to grind here. I would say that when Michael retires, where will you go? Who is going to bother coming into watchmaking when, for some, the attitude is that you should work for minimum wage and you can get that stacking shelves in a supermarket without any of the hassle of running your own company.

No criticism of Michael Swift is implied here at all - he can work and charge what he wants, it's a free country.

Good luck, Chris

Engee

I've used Michael Swift once and was happy with the results and it cost me about £100. It would be interesting to know what he actually does for £45. It could be that £45 is not the price of a basic service but a simple repair job like changing a crown or crystal.

I don't know his business model but what I do know is that he lives and works in a fairly remote part of Scotland where I suspect living expense are relatively low. I also know that his son is learning to be a watchmaker under his pupilage so that might be where the lower rates come in. It may also simply be that he does it for the love of it and not for the money and earns his main income in some other way, like watch and jewellery sales.

There are all sorts of reasons for people charging less than the norm for their services. Often it has to do with quality, but not always.

Mr Blond

If anyone has ever used chrisn like myself then you’ll know that he is great value for money. The attention to detail you get, the stage by stage reports, all the photos. Everything is inspected to the most minute detail. And I haven’t even started on how good he is with customer care should something go wrong within the warranty period.

In my experience you do get what you pay for. Why spend hundreds or thousands of pounds/dollars/euros on a watch and not take it to someone like chrisn, STS, Simon freese etc is beyond me. How often do you even get your watch serviced? Break that cost down over 5 or 10 years, it does not cost that much.

You wouldn’t take your Ferrari to Kwitfit to get them to fix your car.

Danwales

Hi Chris
I understand your points. For me though as a watch collector on a budget it's a bit of a no brainer to use Michael. I don't think he is that old and another watch repairer I use ( who is also in the sub £100 service category ) is 91 and still at the bench so he could be working for awhile yet. Also his son seems to be in the business too so hopefully the business will carry on.

Engee

There are all sorts of reasons for people charging less than the norm for their services. Often it has to do with quality, but not always.

ChrisN

I'm not trying to change your mind about who you use. You wrote "I have had to question how some other watch repairers can justify charging over £100 more for a routine service". I trust that you can now understand why people charge more and that was my only purpose in replying to your comment.

I see that Michael says "QUALITY CLOCK AND WATCH REPAIRS SINCE 1975" so, I read that as he is early sixties and will reach retirement age fairly soon. He may choose not to retire.


Only because you quoted my whole post this looks like a comment on something I said but, I don't believe that was your intention and I am just being cautious. Just to be absolutely clear, I have not, and am not, saying that Michael does poor work - I have never seen any of his work, to my knowledge.

Thanks @Mr Blond for the kind comments.

Enjoy your watches, Chris

Mr Blond

If anyone has ever used chrisn like myself then you’ll know that he is great value for money. The attention to detail you get, the stage by stage reports, all the photos. Everything is inspected to the most minute detail. And I haven’t even started on how good he is with customer care should something go wrong within the warranty period.

In my experience you do get what you pay for. Why spend hundreds or thousands of pounds/dollars/euros on a watch and not take it to someone like chrisn, STS, Simon freese etc is beyond me. How often do you even get your watch serviced? Break that cost down over 5 or 10 years, it does not cost that much.

You wouldn’t take your Ferrari to Kwitfit to get them to fix your car.

Archer

I’ll just point out that the price of the watch is irrelevant when it comes to the labour involved in servicing it.

You are paying for the time of the watchmaker, and if it takes 3 hours to service a watch it takes 3 hours if the watch is worth $100 or $100,000.

Shrimpy

I just read this thread and coincidentally found this announcement which happened to be posted today on Michael Swift's website so he will no longer be accepting watches for repair and service:

RETIREMENT - 6/7/2020
Dear customers past and present,

After 46 years servicing and repairing watches I am now announcing my retirement later this year. My son Jamie will be taking over the business from me. He will be specialising in the clock servicing and repair side of the business.

This means that as from today (6-7-21) we will no longer be accepting watches for overhaul, as I already have a large queue of watches which will last until my retirement. Jamie will continue to accept watches for smaller jobs like straps, cells, crystals, movements, and crowns along with clocks for service or repair. Please phone before sending any watches to us to ensure we will be able to provide the service you require.

Thank you all for your valuable custom and friendship over the years.

Michael Swift