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Longines Wittnauer seconds setting 47mm ref 4356

  1. Seiji

    Seiji Aug 21, 2018

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    ...
     
    Edited Jun 16, 2019
  2. gatorcpa Ω 2

    gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Aug 21, 2018

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    Here is another example of this watch on a Swiss-German watch forum:

    1F4E9A8D-DFDB-4787-B0F5-145C7F924CE5.jpeg E6CA399F-8B7A-4D5E-B2F5-5CDE6089EA0F.jpeg

    https://forum.watchtime.ch/viewtopic.php?t=39234

    Movement looks the same, except for placement of the serial number.

    For a watch of this level of rarity (and I presume, expense), only an in person examination by an expert in this kind of vintage watch would give any sort of comfort.

    The Extract from Longines is helpful, but not definitive.

    Hope this helps,
    gatorcpa
     
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  3. Syrte Ω 1

    Syrte MWR Tech Support Dept Aug 21, 2018

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    E4334076-1CAD-49DB-92B8-9E9013100725.png 6B38A2E1-0783-4755-B0F4-B029AFD61EEB.png
  4. Syrte Ω 1

    Syrte MWR Tech Support Dept Aug 21, 2018

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    @Seiji if you’re contemplating a purchase, I agree with @gatorcpa this is not the place to start speculating on this thing.
    Whoever is selling has to obtain a certificate of authenticity from Longines — or enter into a proper formal contract with proper warranties.
    This train has left the station, you don’t just fiddle with such watches.
     
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  5. Radiumpassion

    Radiumpassion Aug 21, 2018

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    Movement does not look the same at all.
     
  6. Radiumpassion

    Radiumpassion Aug 21, 2018

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    It's not a 37.9s but a 37.9 with central second modification. Looks more like this.

    image.jpg
     
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  7. Deafboy

    Deafboy His Holiness Puer Surdus Aug 21, 2018

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    The main difference I see is the indirect seconds wheel is located above the bridge in the OP's watch. What else is there?
     
  8. Deafboy

    Deafboy His Holiness Puer Surdus Aug 21, 2018

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    From Ranfft

    Interestingly, the site says "differences not known between 37.9, 37.93". So perhaps my previous post describes that difference.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Radiumpassion

    Radiumpassion Aug 21, 2018

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    I think that's a pretty significant difference.
     
  10. gatorcpa Ω 2

    gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Aug 21, 2018

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    A couple of points.

    1. While the OP’s watch was invoiced in 1940, I’m not sure when the movement was actually produced. I have not run the serial number through the Vintage Watch Resources database.

    2. There may have been modifications made to parts of the movement at the factory. This model was made for a long time. I think they go back to the early 1930’s and were in specialty catalogs from L-W through at least the end of WWII. A sample size of two examples is not enough to say anything about the originality of either movement.

    I also remembered the following outtake from the Antiques Roadshow.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/se...s/longines-aviators-watch-ca-1938--200906A49/

    The watch looks the part, but I do not have the knowledge to say everything is 100% original.
    gatorcpa
     
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  11. Syrte Ω 1

    Syrte MWR Tech Support Dept Aug 21, 2018

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  12. dodo44

    dodo44 Aug 21, 2018

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    I have a Weems with the same movement configuration as the one that you posted. Mine is from 7/29/1938. The main difference is that mine is decorated with Cotes de Geneve and the serial number is not on the bridge but between the screws where you have written Longines Watch Co Swiss. My case is silver and is reference 38330.
     
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  13. gatorcpa Ω 2

    gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Aug 21, 2018

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    The Weems, the Hour Angle and the Seconds Setting are all different models with different movements and are vastly different in size.

    They are all based on the original Weems patent for the locking second crown, which I think dates from 1927.

    I have a Weems. It’s tiny. Maybe 28mm across? The Hour Angle is a little bigger, 33mm to 34mm? Most of the difference is in the larger bezel. The Seconds Setting is huge in comparison at 47mm without crown.
    gatorcpa
     
  14. gatorcpa Ω 2

    gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Aug 21, 2018

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    I always get scared of that word “Prototype”.

    There could be a lot of explanations for the serial number showing in two places. So long as the numbers match, should be OK.
    gatorcpa
     
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  15. Syrte Ω 1

    Syrte MWR Tech Support Dept Aug 21, 2018

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    Wow :thumbsup:

    ::confused2::
    I didn’t think I was disagreeing with you? ::confused2:: My sole point was to search Longines’ official history and confirm they date the first iteration of the Weems to 1927- as that source indicates. I was only referring to the large early model.

    (i did wonder whether the 1935 patent relates to the small one? But that’s off point anyhow— as the large one is the one being discussed).
     
    Edited Aug 21, 2018
  16. LarryG

    LarryG not KennyG, not OG, just LarryG Aug 21, 2018

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    goldberger p80 shows similarly marked bridge.... mov’t no. 5942315
     
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  17. gatorcpa Ω 2

    gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Aug 21, 2018

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    Yes, I was a bit confused by that. ::confused2:: All three of the models have a connection to the Weems patent.

    Are you implying that the watch has a case that was originally sent to Japan and then a US import movement was later installed? I'm not sure if Longines would have any records to prove or disprove that theory. Many watches exported to the US at that time had the movements and cases (even if Swiss made) brought in separately to save on Customs.

    If you have further questions, by all means, ask Longines. Don't be surprised if they have no further answers.
    gatorcpa
     
  18. dodo44

    dodo44 Aug 22, 2018

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    Some great info here Seiji. When Longines writes "The watch has the civil time", do you know what they mean? I have asked them before whether the registries kept track of whether the large Weems watches were set to civil or sidereal time and the answer no. I assume that it is just a matter of regulating the timekeeping to switch from one to the other. Do you have more info on that point?
     
  19. LarryG

    LarryG not KennyG, not OG, just LarryG Aug 23, 2018

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    I've noticed a couple of second hand variants on the 1st series cal 18.69n.
     
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  20. LarryG

    LarryG not KennyG, not OG, just LarryG Aug 23, 2018

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    you'll not regret it.
    it's a beast, but one every Longines collector should have....
    congrats
     
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