Dear watch friends

A fellow collector (and fierce competitor) just got this in a local auction paying about
220€ +premium. Any of you guys know these watches? It also features a interesting
protective shield that may or may not be original to the watch. Please tell me that he
has not struck gold

 

These sort of oversized, slightly curved silver tank watches from the 20s/30s easily command €200+ without any known name brand on the dial or that marvelous glass cover, so your friend/nemesis did a good deal, I'd say. I would say that the hands are replacements, but a lovely watch for sure.

 

Ha, funny I contemplated bidding on it too !
Congrats to the buyer.

I was a bit turned off by the condition of the dial -- but I thought the shield and silver case were really nice. I’d love to know what’s in the Longines archive once he’s been able to query.

 

Thank you for your input @ConElPueblo I agree on the hands. And I think
this piece is close to a hundred years old.

What? @Syrte Are you picking in my back yard Hopefully I will get
the chance to take a closer look at it, and the movement serial eventually

Do you guys think the shield is original or added later?

 

Originally from Longines (as in "seen in official Longines catalogue") or made to fit the watch originally from the point of sale? I don't think you'll find a Longines model originally fitted with a shrapnel guard, but it could well be a case + guard made together by a third party contractor, i.e. the silversmith or jeweler selling the watch originally.

 

I think the the watch and dial is nice! If it is really a Longines it should have a serial number outside of the back (at least I would expect this). So I would be really interested to see the back and inside. This is a 1910´s model and the eldest rectangular watch in Goldenbergs Longines book is 1928 as I remember. So if it is a Longines - it would be a very interesting piece of history. Collectors do not pay enough attention nowadays to these early big rectangular watches. They have really beautiful movements and some early Longines dials are enamelled (not printed) similar to Patek Philippe...

 

which auction house? curious to see its catalogue.

 

just by the way 1910´s would not be Art Deco (around 1923-35) it is more the period of art nouveaux

 

Thank you for your input.

Art nouveau period maybe, but not style IMO (dial layout)

 

Is it possible for you to get pictures of the case and movement and a range of serial number of this watch?

 

I saw the watch in person yesterday, no outside number. But owner said
there was a Russian silver hallmark on the inside of the caseback (84)
He had written down the movement serial so I will try to get it on the next occasion

 

Very interesting. If I had to venture a dating, I would say it’s not 1910 but late 1920s or perhaps very early 1930s- I’d say 1929 to 1931– maybe very very early art deco ? But agree with @divetime that it feels a bit earlier than art deco.

 

Advert from 1917:

 

Pretty damn cool. Then I stand corrected.
And if so definitely not art deco.

 

My two cents, for what it's worth.....the serial number off the movement will, of course, determine the date of manufacture....my recollection is that Longines didn't begin to make "shaped" movements until 1916....round movements are ill-suited to rectangular shaped cases, unless the diameter of the movement is very small, which round movements of the 1910s typically weren't....so, if the movement is a Longines it likely dates the watch to no earlier than 1916.

Art Nouveau vs Art Deco.....although the term "Art Deco" is coined around 1925, this design genre actually dates back to 1914....Art Nouveau was most popular 1890-1910....the "exploded" Roman numeral font used on the dial of the watch in question is, I believe, more typical of Art Deco design than Art Nouveau.....if you do a Google image search of Art Nouveau clocks and watches the "exploded" font doesn't really appear in original examples dating 1890-1910.

The case and shrapnel guard....shrapnel guards are typically military artifacts associated with World War I, the period in which men's timepieces transitioned from the pocket watch to the wristwatch....the most common design during the early part of this transition was the "trench watch", essentially a round pocket watch having soldered wire lugs attached to accommodate a wrist strap. As noted above, Longines didn't start making shaped movements (typically required for use in rectangular cases) until 1916, the mid-point of WWI. I believe the use of shrapnel guards pretty much disappears after WWI, as military timepieces become more commonly purpose-built incorporating shatter resistant plastic crystals. I suppose some "outdoors men" might have used shrapnel guards while hunting or roughing it in the wild, but I would imagine that such watches were dedicated "out door" watches -- i.e., removing the shrapnel guard for casual day-to-day wearing of the watch leaves the four holes in the case used to secure the shrapnel open to the elements....not very practical. My guess is that the watch in question was intended for military/combat environment and not an outdoors man's watch or some sort of civilian fashion statement of the period. I believe by the mid-1920s most higher end watch and case manufacturers had adopted some form of spring bar for attaching wrist straps, and had abandoned wire lugs.

Given the above considerations, I would guess the watch dates somewhere between 1916 and the early 1920s. Given the shrapnel guard, perhaps 1916-1919 would be a better guess. Attached is another example of an early Longines with rectangular Russian made case having "exploded" Arabic numerals rather than "exploded" Roman numerals.

 

is this a Longines advert?

 

This is the earliest genuine rectangular Longines I know (hinged case, dial and movement signed Longines), delivered 1918 to Wirth Switzerland

 

Interesting piece of horology history. The case seems to have 4 holes in it. If the guard has 4 tabs that go into those 4 holes then it's quite possible that the guard is original for the watch.

I'd like to hear the connection between this watch and Russia. Russia at the time was an empire. Normally only military/trench watches had shrapnel guards (for obvious reasons) but maybe this was a special order for the Russian market.

Did the russians make cases for Longines at some point ? Or maybe it was hallmarked with a russian stamp for other reasons...

PS: the guard isn't perfectly symmetrical from what I can see. Crown might not be original...

 

Chromium covered crown on silver watch isn’t original for sure...

 

Well, now we would all love to see more pictures

now we all really want to see pictures of the movement and inside case back too