Just sent this wonderful watch. Need expert help, please. Watch has all original stuff?? Case is aprox 34mm, 10 K gold filled. Owned by very early US pilot. License signed by Orville Wright, Number around 150. Pilot evidently had trouble reading hours (Roman Numerals), so had them over painted with heavy black paint. Can see a few small parts of original numbers . Most unusual (I assume it was something personal) he had the 15 degree marker changed to 13..?? I have seen several other GF models with the same minute hand that is on mine, but they have been deemed as not original. Might the US made ones came with a different hour hand. Also other movements have a different item with name, serial 3, etc. See scans, please. Thoughts. Kind regards, Jim...
Additional thoughts. Watch came directly from his estate. No one fooled with it. As you can see I haven't even cleaned it yet. Unsure if leather band is original, or if he had to change during lifetime. The plastic crystal has a lot of small scratches and one larger one down by 7-8. Inside case marked "Cased & Timed in USA by Longines". I'll take another photo with the hands separated. Sorry. Jim...
Hi, What do you mean by « just sent this watch »? Did you buy it, sell it or both? Not sure about what you characterize as unusual patterns. However the dial is refinished, the crown is a replacement, and the gold plating is damaged. So its value as a collectable item is limited, gold plated and gold filled examples are not so rare, but the important thing is that like it and that you like its history. Best regards S
It’s an interesting story. Is there documentation of it? Not doubting it, but without photos or other connections it’s hard to prove provenance.
To "S" I assume you are an expert on this watch. I guess most of the others I researched were also bad by your description. Damaged I don't see where. As to my "just sent" I apologize that I was so ambiguous. I meant I was just sent... One thing I can argue it is gold filled not plated., Also the others I looked at had to my untrained eye.the same size, style crowns as mine does. thanks for you assistance. Jim...
Don S. Understand your concerns. I bought the majority of his estate. I have his set of pilots logs, his personal photo album from about 1923 or so, letters, a few checks, an original pilots license from 1935. His pre deceased cousin's Pilots Logs and one of his original pilots license. They were partners in a number of things. Jim C. LTC USA ret.
I’d pay attention to “S”! I cant speak to which 33mm Longines hour angles you compared yours to, but the dial is clearly refinished and the time setting crown a replacement.
Here’s what a nice all original Lindbergh Hour Angle should look like: http://www.libertas-watch.com/other/13820 Obviously, the original owner used the watch for a very long time. Only natural that the dial deteriorated over the years and it was repainted at some point. Hope this helps, gatorcpa
LarryG. Thanks for your input. I accept that the dial numbers have been repainted, and that the setting crown has been replaced. I found S's approach to responding very heavy handed and unprofessional. Hence my reaction to his info. But life goes on. Regards Jim...
gatocpa. Thanks for your input and photo. The photo pointed out the changed setting crown, among other things. Your photo appears to me is of a larger sized model. Also the steel and GF really look different to my untrained eye. But that might be due to different sizes?? Thanks for taking the time to help me in this matter. Jim....
Firstly, she is not your consultant and therefore does not need to be professional. Secondly, I found her response to be terse, but not hostile. Enjoy the watch, for what it's worth. Best, D.
Hi @Jim.c., I am sorry you are clearly disappointed with my comments and if I failed to find the words that would have mitigated your disappointment. I was very direct— however, if I may argue, so are you. You are presenting a watch with an introduction where you do not state your purpose or who you are, and simply demanding «thoughts» in one word. As to my « unprofessionalism », I’m not being paid for the opinion you seek I do my best in the time I have. If you question people’s abilities when they take the time to reply, then may I ask why post here? There are paid appraisers who may provide better « customer service. » Best regards Ps thanks @LarryG and @Modest_Proposal for the kind support.
I'm going to assume that you will appreciate straight talk. Those of us who spend many, many hours studying tens of thousands of watch dials would say with a very high level of certainty that more than just the the numbers have been repainted. Based on numerous errors, inaccuracies, and misalignments, it's clear that the dial has been painted over and re-finished ... unprofessionally. I think that @Syrte, @gatorcpa, and @LarryG were trying to point this out. The originality of the dial is absolutely critical to the desirability/collectibility of a vintage watch - I can't overstate its importance. Obviously, you don't have to believe us, but you posted this to a forum of experts to get our opinions, since you indicated "Thoughts." in your initial post. We have no skin in the game or ulterior motives. We are a community of collectors and we are giving you our honest expert opinions. It's still an interesting piece of history and of the pilot's estate as a whole, but because of its condition it's not particularly desirable as a watch, which is naturally the perspective of members of this forum. I understand that this may be disappointing to you, but it is not the nature of OF forum members to sugar-coat the truth. Members of an aviation memorabilia community would probably have a different perspective, and would consider the watch in the context of the larger collection that you purchased.
Thanks to all for the info. I had already figured out that the air people would probably be the way to go. I was looking to learn about the watch from those most interested and educated in the field Again thanks. Oh in passing "D" I believe that by offering a definite opinion one has assumed the position of "consultant" albeit unpaid., therefor professionalism should be observed. Regards to all. JimC...
Dear consultant Jim C., I am no longer have faith in your opinion. Your services are hereby terminated. Sincerely, D.
I’m still a little confused as to the original poster saying the dial had been redone, then arguing it had not been redone...