Longines changes policy for Extract of the Archives

[blubarb]

I came across this extract of the archives for a recent listing for a RAAF G6B/158 being sold in Japan and I thought I'd get one for my own RAAF G6B/158, after all they are issued without charge by Longines (Lesson here for Omega )
Anyway, below is the response from Longines - what a shame. It would have been nice to get one to track its history to the RAAF. I can see their position. It really doesn't make a lot of difference I guess. However, I thought the extract would be for how it left Longines factory not what happened to it later as I am not asking for them to attest to its changes or authenticity of any transformations since 1942. Oh well...would have been nice.



This is the response from Longines Branding and Heritage:


"Thank you for your message and the information provided.
Nevertheless, even after having spent the last two days in our archives, we still are unable to issue you with an extract.
Indeed, there has been a recent change in our policy about extract delivering. Therefore, if the case, the movement or the dial doesn't match our records, we will no longer issue an extract. But this does not mean that your watch is (sic) not a genuine officially modified watch for the Australian Air Forces. It simply means that the watch does not look like the piece it was on leaving the factory and that therefore, we can't issue this paper.
We hope this information will be of help to you and remain at your entire disposal for any further information you may need."

My own (gratuitous) photos of this amazing watch.

 

[cchen]

Nice watch!
I agree with their new policy, given what's happened with Omega...

 

[blubarb]

cchen

Nice watch!
I agree with their new policy, given what's happened with Omega...

Yep. When you think about it, the Extract is only for the watch as it left the factory and any transformations/ modifications after that fundamentally no longer agree with the archives, but it’s still a Longines, but just not as we know it, Jim.
Certainly not exactly the same as it left the factory and I guess that’s all they are attesting to through the archives, but that’s all I want. Still, I see what they want to avoid- typical though, 0.0001% spoil it for everyone. Well, for me at least

 

[J_pilot]

Interesting, I hadn’t realized this was a new policy, but I recently encountered the same thing with a piece of my own. The recorded order number didn’t match the inner caseback stamping, but all else was correct (and the recorded order number matched an identical reference). Kind of a bummer, but I get the reluctance, given that some still conflate Extracts with COAs.

 

[blubarb]

J_pilot

Interesting, I hadn’t realized this was a new policy, but I recently encountered the same thing with a piece of my own. The recorded order number didn’t match the inner caseback stamping, but all else was correct (and the recorded order number matched an identical reference). Kind of a bummer, but I get the reluctance, given that some still conflate Extracts with COAs.

Exactly!

 

[pdxleaf]

Next year they are going to start charging for them. However, for vintage pieces that ho through their restoration service the extract will still be free.

 

[seekingseaquest]

pdxleaf

Next year they are going to start charging for them. However, for vintage pieces that ho through their restoration service the extract will still be free.

Mind sharing where you read / how you learned this?

 

[pdxleaf]

seekingseaquest

Mind sharing where you read / how you learned this?

From talking with the Longines tour guide in the archives library at the Longines museum. I asked her about the Omega extract debacle and how it impacted Longines, which led to a lengthy conversation.

Edited: Nov 24, 2023

 

[HamDoctor]

pdxleaf

From talking with the Longines tour guide in the archives library at the Longines museum. I asked her about the Omega extract debacle and how it impacted Longines, which led to a lengthy conversation.

Hmm... that will be a sad development. I have been going on and on about how Longines was special and customer-friendly with their extract policy, a shining example in comparison to others. Let's face it, not every vintage watch is worth five digits, and if an extract costs CHF 150 or so, it's just not in relation to the value of the watch.

Is the actual work that goes into creating an extract from the archives worth CHF 150? It depends; if you count all the decades of work in creating and maintaining such an archive, then yes, it can be argued it is worth it. But on the other hand, if you just look at what is necessary today to create the extract, well, that would be the entering of two serial numbers (caseback and movement) into a database, and a plausibility check of the pictures sent in. At CHF 150, this would make for an hourly wage that makes a lawyer blush.

 

[pdxleaf]

HamDoctor

Hmm... that will be a sad development. I have been going on and on about how Longines was special and customer-friendly with their extract policy, a shining example in comparison to others. Let's face it, not every vintage watch is worth five digits, and if an extract costs CHF 150 or so, it's just not in relation to the value of the watch.

Is the actual work that goes into creating an extract from the archives worth CHF 150? It depends; if you count all the decades of work in creating and maintaining such an archive, then yes, it can be argued it is worth it. But on the other hand, if you just look at what is necessary today to create the extract, well, that would be the entering of two serial numbers (caseback and movement) into a database, and a plausibility check of the pictures sent in. At CHF 150, this would make for an hourly wage that makes a lawyer blush.

I don't know that it will be as much as 150 chf, but it won't be free.

Two things have driven up costs. The first is the explosion of requests. Second, they went from 8 employees doing the research down to two. The natural question is why reduce the number of people when the amount of work increases. The answer was because they wanted to control the process and product. After looking at Omega, they determined that to continue to offer extracts, they wanted fewer hands in the process. They (and I, you can see the original pages yourself) also noted that Longines data is better than Omega's. They list more data elements in their written books, (which have been digitized.) This better data doesn't mean there is more work involved, but it means they can back up what they report. Also, as said previously, for anyone who sends in a watch to their vintage repair department, the service will continue to include a free extract.

This was what I recall from the discussion. (Neither myself nor the tour guide were the decision makers. ) She said it would take place in 2024 but wasn't specific. Going down to two research employees from eight seemed to have already occurred.

It was a fantastic museum that is very well curated. Worth a trip and free, although it requires a reservation.

 

[ohaidere]

cchen

Nice watch!
I agree with their new policy, given what's happened with Omega...

What happened with Omega? I'm a bit out of the loop here...

 

[Evitzee]

ohaidere

What happened with Omega? I'm a bit out of the loop here...

Google 'Omega Speedmaster Scandal' and read away. It's been covered extensively all over the watch world, and beyond.

 

[JohnSteed]

Yea @blubarb thanks for sharing! And so sorry to see this result but better to know, imho. I passed on a very nice diver after dialog with Longines. In my case I think it was the case which was the issue (missing a reference # iirc). Dial was amazing but price was too high.

@pdxleaf looks like the museum/archives might be in the middle of nowhere (from your pic). Was finding accommodation difficult?

 

[pdxleaf]

JohnSteed

@pdxleaf looks like the museum/archives might be in the middle of nowhere (from your pic). Was finding accommodation difficult?

It is within walking distance of the train station but we didn't stay in the small town. One of the beautiful aspects of the museum is that the factory is still located in the same long meadows location where it originated manufacturing. (They are building a new factory store next to the museum.)

We left Zurich that morning, traveled by train to the Omega factory, then to the Longines museum for a 230 pm visit, then to our overnight in La Chaux-de-Fonds, about a 20 minute train ride away.

Because it was my brother and I, we wanted separate rooms, which meant two hotel rooms or an apartment. In La Chaux-de-Fonds, we found a 3 bedroom apartment about a 20 min walk from the train station. It was inexpensive, between 2 and 300 USD (I don't tecall exactly.)

I found the hotels or apartments very affordable. There was a big variation in price but using booking.com, I found rooms for a total of 800 usd (each) for 5 nights. The food on the other hand was expensive.