Lesson learned

[Puma_135o]

Hi all,

I've learned a lesson, this summer. I was around for vacation on the mountains in Europe, and I've found a small watch shop, with a watchmaker working inside. I asked him if he had some vintage watches to show me.
He said he had to look, giving me an appointment for the following day.

The following day he showed me a bunch of watches; a couple of them were interesting, so I asked him to please show me the movements. One was a nice Tissot, nice dial and tritium indices. The other one was a Bulova Accutron, movement 218, clean. The Seastar was working, the other had a worn out battery, so he changed it. The watch started immediately with the usual hum. I took a couple of pictures and asked him for prices.

He answered that he had to think about it, telling me to return in the afternoon. I did it, but before that, obviously, I looked for those watches on the internet. I had only the phone, but I had all the time to check.

First error I made: I found on Chrono24 the same Bulova model and saved a snapshot of the price. I know that Chrono24 prices are high, so I took it into account.
In the afternoon he told me the price of the Bulova, and we managed to agree for half of the price of the Chrono24, it has to be serviced for sure.

So I took the watch back at the hotel, I put it in a box, happy (for the moment) for the catch.
Second Error I made: I didn't check the watch very well in the following days.

When we went back home from the vacation, I took the watch out of the box and turned it on, wearing as it was. I noticed immediately that it was too fast, really too fast. I opened the back and took a look with my lenses, but I didn't see anything suspect or wrong.

So I took finally the watch to my watchmaker. So what we have now:

(1) Using a microscope, he showed me that the pawl jewel (the one that halts the index wheel) was missing, that's the reason for a "fast" movement.
(2) I over-paid the watch, the actual value is around the half of what I paid, so a quarter of the Chrono24 price!
(3) The bracelet is Bulova but it's not for that model. Vintage, but not for that watch.
(4) The price of the service is higher than the price I paid.

What I've learned:

(1) Don't rely on Chrono24 prices
(2) Always talk with a watchmaker before to buy a watch
(3) In cases like this (vintage), always give a deep look to everything
(4) Be prepared. My only justification was the vacation, I was well distracted and relaxed.
(5) The fork between prices can be gigantic.

I hope I made smile somebody, with this short story.
All the best to you all.

Edited: Sep 3, 2021

 

[Vitezi]

Puma_135o

My only justification was the vacation, I was well distracted and relaxed.

Memories are a funny thing. Over time, you'll forget the price you paid for that watch. Instead, you'll remember your vacation every time you look at the dial, and recall all of the fun things you did and the relaxing time you had.

 

[Dan S]

All in all, I think this was probably a pretty inexpensive lesson, and in the end, you will even have a nice watch to remember your holiday.

Unfortunately, it's not always possible to have a close look at everything and to show the watch to your watchmaker before purchasing. Often you just make the best decision possible based on your observations and experience. Sometimes it goes in your favor, and sometimes it doesn't. But as the buyer, you are always the one taking the risk, so perhaps that is something to add to your list: Factor the risk into your offering price.

 

[cristos71]

Well that's a funny, and I think quite typical, story of buying a watch on the spur of the moment with a dangerous amount of knowledge. Dangerous in that it is enough to make a 'rational' decision, which later with hindsight can actually feel like a naïve one!

I, and I'm sure most others here, have made exactly the same, or very similar, mistakes many times over.....what's amusing is that you seem to have made them all in one buying experience 😁 The thing of course is to learn each time a mistake is made.

When I'm hunting early at a watch fair it's very important to be able to decide really quickly whether I'm going to buy, often in only a few seconds, as there are many buyers/dealers hovering around hoovering up all the good deals. Put a good watch down to think about it for just a second or two and the guy behind you picks it up and hands over the cash.

So now I have kind of brainwashed myself with a mental checklist of what I need to be checking for and try to stick to it rigorously to avoid heat of the moment mistakes. For instance I now never put a watch down if I'm undecided yes or no....I still dream of one or two where what I described above happened to me

The mistakes still happen of course, but mainly with watches where I know a bit about, but not quite enough to avoid the expensive traps of wrong hands or mis-matched case and dial frankens etc. Luckily after many years of buying the bad 'uns are few and far between now.

 

[Canuck]

An Accutron that ran FAST with the pawl jewel missing? It probably came to life with a new cell, all right, but that it ran AT ALL without the pawl jewel? To my way of thinking, this is not possible! I suggest you get another opinion,

 

[SkunkPrince]

Nowadays when I look at a watch with uncertain history, I automatically add $800 to the price for my watchmaker... that is a definite worst case, mind, but experience with unknown-history watches demands that prudence.

That said, I got some deals that turned out were a breeze for the watchmaker, but few and far between.

 

[reverbtime]

Sorry about this. Such as minefield with vintage. I prefer to buy now only from well respected, vintage dealers, even if they are a bit pricey just to have peace of mind.

 

[dougwhiz]

Canuck

An Accutron that ran FAST with the pawl jewel missing? It probably came to life with a new cell, all right, but that it ran AT ALL without the pawl jewel? To my way of thinking, this is not possible! I suggest you get another opinion,

From my limited experiences with a vintage Accutron, if the discontinued vintage mercury 1.3v battery isn't used, the watch will run faster on the current 1.55v replacement battery unless you use a modified battery, or you have the watch modified to run on the modern battery voltage.
That's not to say there may have been other issues with the watch as well.

 

[Canuck]

dougwhiz

From my limited experiences with a vintage Accutron, if the discontinued vintage mercury 1.3v battery isn't used, the watch will run faster on the current 1.55v replacement battery unless you use a modified battery, or you have the watch modified to run on the modern battery voltage.
That's not to say there may have been other issues with the watch as well.

Most Accutrons run fine on the 1.55 volt battery. Some do want to gain with the use of the 1.55 volt cell. Most of these problem ones simply need to be re-phased to bring them into line. The modified Accu-Cell has been an option for those who really require the lower voltage. But I recently was told by my supplier that the Accu-Cell is no longer available! 😒 But I can say one thing for certain. An Accutron may have a good tuning fork, index wheel, and circuit, but if the particular Accutron is missing the pawl jewel assembly, no way it will run! Fast, OR slow, period. He needs to get another opinion.

 

[Fallout Boy]

cristos71

When I'm hunting early at a watch fair it's very important to be able to decide really quickly whether I'm going to buy, often in only a few seconds, as there are many buyers/dealers hovering around hoovering up all the good deals. Put a good watch down to think about it for just a second or two and the guy behind you picks it up and hands over the cash.

YES 👍 Living in southern France with its lovely flea-markets, you have to get up early to catch the worm and you always risk a bad purchase, a franken , something faked. The salespersons arriving are immediately surrounded by the usual suspects 😀 (antiques-shop owners? ... and me 😁) with loupes and rucksacks . You MAY find something rare, but you also risk to lose a lot of money.
Until now, I was lucky to find some rare stuff.
PS: I use my accutron with a ENERGIZER 390/398MD 1,55 V

 

[Evitzee]

Buy the seller...never forget that rule, even on vacation.

Edited: Sep 4, 2021

 

[STANDY]

Big error not posting a quick look here. There is always someone lurking 24 hours a day that could give you a quick yay / nay 😉

 

[Puma_135o]

Canuck

An Accutron that ran FAST with the pawl jewel missing? It probably came to life with a new cell, all right, but that it ran AT ALL without the pawl jewel? To my way of thinking, this is not possible! I suggest you get another opinion,

Hi, I've seen the watch running without a jewel on one of the two indexes through a microscope. It could be that I'm wrong about the index/pawl missing jewel. I'm sure that one of the two is missing. Tee watch goes fast easily 5 minutes in one/two hours.

 

[Puma_135o]

STANDY

Big error not posting a quick look here. There is always someone lurking 24 hours a day that could give you a quick yay / nay 😉

I can try with my digital microscope.

 

[STANDY]

Puma_135o

I can try with my digital microscope.

I meant posting what the price was before you bought it….

 

[Canuck]

Puma_135o

Hi, I've seen the watch running without a jewel on one of the two indexes through a microscope. It could be that I'm wrong about the index/pawl missing jewel. I'm sure that one of the two is missing. Tee watch goes fast easily 5 minutes in one/two hours.

I suppose, if the beryllium spring that carried the missing pawl jewel was in position on the index wheel, it could happen. I was visualizing the entire pawl jewel assembly, or the spring and jewel both missing. Don’t expect the index wheel to last for very long, considering the missing jewel.

 

[Puma_135o]

STANDY

I meant posting what the price was before you bought it….

LOL, you're right. The man, by the way, asked me 390€, and I could had the watch for 350. As told, on Chrono24 the same model was there for 700.

 

[Puma_135o]

And here is the problem. With naked eye I think could be impossible to see.

 

[Puma_135o]

Now this watch is on eBay, because the watchmaker asked me other 350€ to repair/service.

 

[ken_hodson]

I have also fallen foul of mistakenly thinking I had a bargain from looking at the prices on Chrono24. Interestingly, my mistake was also with an electronic watch which I bought rather on impulse without full consideration to the fact that these watches are hard to fix (if not impossible) and so it has a finite life. It is a nice watch, but in hindsight I paid over the odds...hey ho...life itself is finite! So I just enjoy wearing it.

They say a wise man learns from his mistakes, a fool doesn't. Subsequent watch purchases have been much more thoroughly researched and thought through and, no doubt, you will probably be the same.

The 'silver lining' to the cloud, however, is that if you are selling on Chrono24 and have your watch at a reasonable, fair price, it's great! By comparison to all the others, yours stands out. I've sold two watches on there for what I had considered to be reasonable in prices, pretty quickly... Good luck.