Lepine Captain Pocket Watch

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Hi, my friends. I bought this particular watch recently. It is marked Lepine on one part of the case, maybe for Jean-Antoine Lepine, but who knows? Doing some research, I found the page https://www.synchroniseur.com/,
dating the watch between 1768 and 1770.
Anyone have any other information? What type of case could be used?
I would be happy to restore it to a nice working condition.
Kind regards in advance.
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Member @Bernhard J will likely be along to comment on your watch. He is the specialist hereabouts on early European watches.
 
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Hi, my friends. I bought this particular watch recently. It is marked Lepine on one part of the case, maybe for Jean-Antoine Lepine, but who knows? Doing some research, I found the page https://www.synchroniseur.com/,
dating the watch between 1768 and 1770.
Anyone have any other information? What type of case could be used?
I would be happy to restore it to a nice working condition.
Kind regards in advance.

Hi,

Indeed very likely Jean-Antoine Lepine, and correctly dated, maybe a few years later.

I would think that the movement originally had a gold case. If the case is missing, this is a problem, because you will likely not find someone near, who is able to make a suitable and historically correct case. The only person I know, who might be up to this job, is Seth Kennedy https://www.grandeysplace.co.uk/craftspeople/seth-kennedy . He would also be able to restore the movement, but is not the only person for this.

Looking at your movement, I suppose that it had an independent central seconds hand (in addition to the seconds in the subdial). It is called independent, because it can be stopped and started independently of the time train. Since the arbor seems to be missing, several parts will need to be made, and the independent seconds mechanism is often very delicate.

Having this movement restored is a mayor job for a skilled horologist only, and accordingly expensive. And then still the case is missing, and even if a new case is made, it will remain a "mariage". So a complete restoration is only feasable for a real enthusiast, who does not mind substantial expenses, irrespective of a market value of the outcome. As an alternative you might just clean up the movement carefully and keep it as it is as an historical artefact. That would be the museal approach, i.e. conservation rather than restoration.

Cheers, Bernhard
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I had an idea @Bernhard J would be able to shed some light on your interesting watch. Keep us in the loop as you investigate returning it to health.
 
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Hi,

Indeed very likely Jean-Antoine Lepine, and correctly dated, maybe a few years later.

I would think that the movement originally had a gold case. If the case is missing, this is a problem, because you will likely not find someone near, who is able to make a suitable and historically correct case. The only person I know, who might be up to this job, is Seth Kennedy https://www.grandeysplace.co.uk/craftspeople/seth-kennedy . He would also be able to restore the movement, but is not the only person for this.

Looking at your movement, I suppose that it had an independent central seconds hand (in addition to the seconds in the subdial). It is called independent, because it can be stopped and started independently of the time train. Since the arbor seems to be missing, several parts will need to be made, and the independent seconds mechanism is often very delicate.

Having this movement restored is a mayor job for a skilled horologist only, and accordingly expensive. And then still the case is missing, and even if a new case is made, it will remain a "mariage". So a complete restoration is only feasable for a real enthusiast, who does not mind substantial expenses, irrespective of a market value of the outcome. As an alternative you might just clean up the movement carefully and keep it as it is as an historical artefact. That would be the museal approach, i.e. conservation rather than restoration.

Cheers, Bernhard
Hi, thanks a lot for your time and your response. I'll check with my local watchmaker to see if he can make it work (he is the best here in México City). If the watch cannot be restored (without any major changes to the dial or movement), I'll keep it as a decoration.
I'll share any updates. Kind regards.
Atte: Carlos Páez
 
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I had an idea @Bernhard J would be able to shed some light on your interesting watch. Keep us in the loop as you investigate returning it to health.
You were right , thanks a lot for your help.
I'll update any change to this little boy.
Atte: Carlos Páez
 
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Is there a minute hand on the left sub-dial (arabic numerals)?
Or is it hour only and the minutes are shown by the central hand in regulator layout?

If it turns out it's not feasible to get it operating again, it would still make a very appealing museum display.
Mounted properly in a small glass case it would be the envy of any watch nerd.
 
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Is there a minute hand on the left sub-dial (arabic numerals)?
Or is it hour only and the minutes are shown by the central hand in regulator layout?

Hi Jim,

I suppose that a minute hand on the left sub-dial is missing. My thoughts about an independent central seconds hand is based on that two barrels are fitted to the movement. There exist watches with two sub-dials indicating different times, but these need one barrel only. Somewhat later watches existed, wherein the two different times were displayed, but then with one complete movement for each sub-dial. This can be ruled out in this case when looking at the movement.

It will be interesting whether the watchmaker can confirm or correct my thoughts about an independent central second.

In the movement several parts seem to be missing, the most obvious a screw of the barrel bridge, perhaps the left minutes hand (if I am right), and the arbor or complete wheel of what ever drives the central hand (and the central hand, obviously). Aside the incomplete setting mechanism on the smaller barrel. Other missing parts might become evident after disassembly.

Completing the movement is alone a challenging task. For example the missing screw will have to be hand made, because the thread will be nothing of more "modern" standards. But at least the other two barrel bridge screws can serve as templates.

Cheers, Bernhard
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Well assessed B.
Do you think the hairspring "stud" is original, or could it be a later "repair".



I also suspect there is a centre wheel bushing that could accomodate a minute wheel, thus reinforcing your assumptiont that a centre minute hand once existed.

Cheers
Jim
 
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Hi Jim,

I was wondering as well about the hairspring stud arm, but think that it was at least located there like it is (perhaps originally in another angle and longer). Because I see no empty thread for fitting of the stud arm at another position. The stud arm itself might be "aftermarket", the original one lost.

Concerning the bushing I agree that there would be a wheel underneath. That seems to miss (or both arbors, rear and front, are broken off). But I do not think that it was a central minutes wheel. I suspect that it was a central seconds wheel for independent seconds. At that time this was an attractive feature, because the independent seconds hand could be stopped and started without stopping the movement, e.g. the "permanent" seconds hand in the sub-dial continuing, irrespective of whether the central seconds hand is running or not. The design typically requires two going barrels. And independent seconds definitively counts to the complications.

Otherwise I would not see any need for the second smaller barrel, a single barrel would be fully sufficient for driving all hands. Of course I might be wrong, but this will become evident upon disassembly.

Cheers, Bernhard
 
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Here is a typical (later) movement with independent seconds. The train to the right is the normal time train. The train to the left (and middle) does nothing else than to power the independent seconds hand.

The independent seconds hand also jumps once per second only in most cases (Seconde morte).

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