IWC Yacht Club 811/A/D Blue dial

ephemeral · Nov 13, 2023

Hey there,

It's been a while since I last posted and missed posting a couple cool findings.

The one of the day is an IWC Yacht Club 811 which dates between 70 and 71 refering to the serial.

It seems despite all my research that I could not find answers regarding specific details of my watch and more generally on the model itself.

Is there such a thing as Japanese or perhaps Asian market variant of the watch ? In regards to the tritium ban it seems most watches I saw on auction did not have lume at all and only "Swiss" signed.

What the hell is the bracelet I sitting on my watch ? Endlicks have no markings whatsoever and I could not find another 811 with that bracelet.
I do have an original GF ref.11 waiting to be installed with enough use to match the state of the watch.

Is the A/D an indication of the mouvement which to my understanding could either be IWC 8541B or IWC 8541 since the watch was produced between 70 and 71?

A couple amazing shots. Despite how it looks it's only plexy scratch, the dial only has some peeling between the W and C after inspecting with a 10x which was a total gamble looking back at the auction picture.

Will definitely restore this one (hands + crystal polish and a good old full service).

Thanks,
eph

HamDoctor · Nov 13, 2023

The Yacht Club are great watches. I really like the coloured dials, and it's always great to see one that has weathered the decades without damage to the dial.

It's possible that the bracelet is a JDM one - I am pretty certain that both Omega and Zenith sold watches with bracelets that were specific to the japanese market, maybe produced locally to get around some obscure tax thing? Hopefully, someone else knows.

If I'm not mistaken "AD" refers to a watch that is Automatic and has a Date. IWC did change the model numbers around that time, though (for example, what was an "R815A" became an "1815").

ephemeral · Nov 13, 2023

HamDoctor
The Yacht Club are great watches. I really like the coloured dials, and it's always great to see one that has weathered the decades without damage to the dial.

It's possible that the bracelet is a JDM one - I am pretty certain that both Omega and Zenith sold watches with bracelets that were specific to the japanese market, maybe produced locally to get around some obscure tax thing? Hopefully, someone else knows.

If I'm not mistaken "AD" refers to a watch that is Automatic and has a Date. IWC did change the model numbers around that time, though (for example, what was an "R815A" became an "1815").

You can't really go wrong with Genta's designs. It's perhaps the longest road of my watch journey so far. The next one needs to be a UN 866104 blue dial, nothing beats having the roots of the Patek Ellipse.

It would only bring more to the story having a 'unique' looking (and comfy) JDM bracelet on hand. Quite curious to have more opinion on that one.

Regarding the AD explanation, it makes the most sense so far but why would people then list no date as AD and date as A only ?

HamDoctor · Nov 14, 2023

ephemeral
You can't really go wrong with Genta's designs. It's perhaps the longest road of my watch journey so far. The next one needs to be a UN 866104 blue dial, nothing beats having the roots of the Patek Ellipse.

It would only bring more to the story having a 'unique' looking (and comfy) JDM bracelet on hand. Quite curious to have more opinion on that one.

Regarding the AD explanation, it makes the most sense so far but why would people then list no date as AD and date as A only ?

My theory is that people are confused, and that IWC in general isn't that well documented, leading to errors-by-hearsay.

I found the Japanese jeweller catalogues posted by Nakahiro super useful, several times:
http://nakahiro.parfait.ne.jp/catarog1970/moji/iwc1970.html

For example, this page has a few references that seem to support my theory: "A" for automatic, "AD" for automatic with date:

The most information-dense page on IWC I have been able to find is dating back to the early 2000s, by Greg Steer - I'll link it here:

https://gregsteer.net/IWC/IWC_Index.htm

Interesting bit about the Universal Geneve 866104 - was this version of the White Shadow really earlier than the Ellipse? I always thought that this was a later addition to the "Shadow" line, but I may well be wrong.

ephemeral · Nov 15, 2023

HamDoctor
My theory is that people are confused, and that IWC in general isn't that well documented, leading to errors-by-hearsay.

I found the Japanese jeweller catalogues posted by Nakahiro super useful, several times:
http://nakahiro.parfait.ne.jp/catarog1970/moji/iwc1970.html

For example, this page has a few references that seem to support my theory: "A" for automatic, "AD" for automatic with date:

The most information-dense page on IWC I have been able to find is dating back to the early 2000s, by Greg Steer - I'll link it here:

https://gregsteer.net/IWC/IWC_Index.htm

Interesting bit about the Universal Geneve 866104 - was this version of the White Shadow really earlier than the Ellipse? I always thought that this was a later addition to the "Shadow" line, but I may well be wrong.

Thanks a lot for sharing all those ressources!

Regarding documentation I did not find IWC to be the worst of the vintage era. I am quite surprised dealers (perhaps well established) do not know what they are selling on their eshop.

I'll have to double check about the 866104, I remember the Urban Gentry mentionning it quite a lot.
It would make sense to me, after designing for UG (white shadow, polerouter etc..) he was then commissionned by Patek and Audemars and brought with him his past designs and experiences.

EDIT:
I brought the watch to a shop near my working area, and 3 things been said:

- The bracelet is not 'original' and was cut to be adapted. Which I partially agree with on the not 'original' part as you found out it perhaps might be a 'JDM' one which clearly is not properly engineered since the first link after the endlink did rub on the lugs, making them slightly rounded on the under side of the watch. Or perhaps it has nothing to do with engineering but just with wear over the years which induiced looseness on the bracelet and eventually rubbing action starting.
I'll try get a proper tool to remove the bracelet and inspect the endlinks to see any cutting marks to the edges.

- The case was polished. Which I highly doubt. He did mention the condition of the lugs (where the bracelet was rubbing!) as indicator of the polish.

- The watch is a good runner but needs a gentle service. Perfectly running flat ( if irc +=1s 300deg and .1ms) but a bit less on the side (if irc +=15s 270deg and around 1ms)

I think I'll leave it to @Tahar whenever we meet but I'll also provide better pics asap.

HamDoctor · Nov 16, 2023

ephemeral
Thanks a lot for sharing all those ressources!

Regarding documentation I did not find IWC to be the worst of the vintage era. I am quite surprised dealers (perhaps well established) do not know what they are selling on their eshop.

I'll have to double check about the 866104, I remember the Urban Gentry mentionning it quite a lot.
It would make sense to me, after designing for UG (white shadow, polerouter etc..) he was then commissionned by Patek and Audemars and brought with him his past designs and experiences.

EDIT:
I brought the watch to a shop near my working area, and 3 things been said:

- The bracelet is not 'original' and was cut to be adapted. Which I partially agree with on the not 'original' part as you found out it perhaps might be a 'JDM' one which clearly is not properly engineered since the first link after the endlink did rub on the lugs, making them slightly rounded on the under side of the watch. Or perhaps it has nothing to do with engineering but just with wear over the years which induiced looseness on the bracelet and eventually rubbing action starting.
I'll try get a proper tool to remove the bracelet and inspect the endlinks to see any cutting marks to the edges.

- The case was polished. Which I highly doubt. He did mention the condition of the lugs (where the bracelet was rubbing!) as indicator of the polish.

- The watch is a good runner but needs a gentle service. Perfectly running flat ( if irc +=1s 300deg and .1ms) but a bit less on the side (if irc +=15s 270deg and around 1ms)

I think I'll leave it to @Tahar whenever we meet but I'll also provide better pics asap.

Hmm... while I'm not 100% certain, I could have sworn I have seen this particular bracelet on IWCs sold in Japanese auctions before. I just looked at a few auctions in Japan with Yacht Clubs featuring an IWC bracelet, and while the clasp on most looks like yours, the bracelet itself was different. Here's an example:

So I first thought that the one on your Yacht Club may be from a different model.

The solution may be in the 1972 Nakahiro catalogue:

It shows your Yacht Club Ref. 1811 in the lower left, with the bracelet I have shown from the auction. Above that is a different bracelet which looks pretty similar to yours. In the lower right corner is a text that translates to "Special SS bracelet ref. 9115 - Yacht Club / Ingenieur only - 21,000 Yen" (SS meaning "stainless steel", of course).

So this bracelet was an option on the Japanese market. Mystery solved, I think? Maybe someone else knows something else about this.

HamDoctor · Nov 16, 2023

As for the other points: "case is polished" - I'd say flat-out "no", the edges seem sharp to my eyes, the original factory finish on the surface can still be seen. The watch is just showing signs of normal wear, in my eyes. Again, if someone else thinks different, please let me know, I'm still learning and will be for a long time yet.

The positional variance on the timegrapher is troubling, though. Not so much the amplitude (300° flat, 270° on the side), but if it is really +1s/d flat and +15s/d on the side, something isn't right. IWC at the time built watches to a standard of +0 to +5 seconds per day, the quality of their movements was ... really impressive. Maybe it was only +5s/d on the side?

ephemeral · Nov 16, 2023

HamDoctor
Hmm... while I'm not 100% certain, I could have sworn I have seen this particular bracelet on IWCs sold in Japanese auctions before. I just looked at a few auctions in Japan with Yacht Clubs featuring an IWC bracelet, and while the clasp on most looks like yours, the bracelet itself was different. Here's an example:

So I first thought that the one on your Yacht Club may be from a different model.

The solution may be in the 1972 Nakahiro catalogue:

It shows your Yacht Club Ref. 1811 in the lower left, with the bracelet I have shown from the auction. Above that is a different bracelet which looks pretty similar to yours. In the lower right corner is a text that translates to "Special SS bracelet ref. 9115 - Yacht Club / Ingenieur only - 21,000 Yen" (SS meaning "stainless steel", of course).

So this bracelet was an option on the Japanese market. Mystery solved, I think? Maybe someone else knows something else about this.

I believe the bracelet on the first image is the ref.11 which I purchased spare as I did not know anything about the current bracelet on the watch and wanted something at least original to the model. The clasp is different being totally plain without any grooves.

I'll be trying to find any pictures of the bracelet you mentionned/ same bracelet as mine to backup your amazing discovery!

Regarding the polished cased statement from the watch shop, it is indeed totally false. And tbh I still do not understand how could he think so looking a it 3 time with eyes and 2 different loupes. He was the owner of the shop not the watchmaker tho.

I was about to leave them a watch for service (Ulysse nardin 10921-8) as a test but I will most definitely pass.

As for the time keeping, I am no watchmarker and typed what was on top of my head. It will either way need service, I do not have any history of past service tho it's definitely not the worst one I purchased on auction.

ephemeral · Nov 23, 2023

Just found the exact same bracelet on the quartz version of the yacht club (see pics).
Still keeping an eye out for more information. I believe it might me coming from the quartz model, I hardly see a special catalogue bracelet on a quartz one.

HamDoctor · Nov 24, 2023

ephemeral
Just found the exact same bracelet on the quartz version of the yacht club (see pics).
Still keeping an eye out for more information. I believe it might me coming from the quartz model, I hardly see a special catalogue bracelet on a quartz one.

I'm pretty certain now that this bracelet was available as an option for the Japanese market in the early 1970s. That fits with the tuning fork watch that you have just shown.

It does turn up sometimes in Japanese auctions, here's a current one with a Yacht Club:

https://buyee.jp/mercari/item/m93980336763

Tony C. · Nov 24, 2023

With regard to reference numbers, IWC was definitely not consistent with the "A" and "AD" designations. Here is just one of a number examples of ref. 866 Ingenieurs with an incorrect designation (it had a date function):

With regard to the bracelet question, I am skeptical that they were ever originally matched with Yacht Clubs. Both examples shown illustrate the final links being wider than they should be. Note the contrast with the fit of a correct oyster bracelet:

ephemeral · Apr 6, 2024

Hey there,

Just wanted to add a couple pictures to the thread since I found a watchmaker I want to work with.

Here is the mouvement, I do have the B :

Here is the before plexy polish:

Here it is after the little visit to the watchmaker with the "correct" bracelet on :

Watch is running perfectly despite the unknowned service history. I was quite suprised by how clean is the movement.

I could not be more happy with my purchase, case unpolished (unlike the "correct" bracelet I sourced after the watch) and dial is immaculate.

I asked for the second hand to be polish since there are evident sign of corosion but my watchmaker did not have replacement gaskets for the mouvement. Since it is anti choc you have a plastic rings all around the mouvement.
Case gasket was removed since it dried out and was totally solid

Would you guys happen to know how to get a new one, original or dimensions to find a generic one ?
Is it still possible to go to IWC and ask for those parts ?

Cheers,
eph

IWC Yacht Club 811/A/D Blue dial

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HamDoctor

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Tony C.

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