Issues servicing my 145.022 through Omega Certified Watchmaker

[charleswonjun]

Hey guys,
I sent in my 145.022 Speedy that had stopped running for service with an Omega certified watchmaker in mid July of this year.

I was charged a flat fee of $850 for which the invoice states, "Vintage Overhaul." I received the watch around just over 2 months after sending it in. Within a week of receiving the watch, I noticed that the watch was losing between 40 to 60 seconds a day. I don't have a sophisticated timegrapher, but it wasn't difficult to diagnose this given how much time the watch was losing.

I let the watchmaker know of this issue, but I was told that manually keeping track of the seconds deviations from the time on an atomic clock was not a reliable way of assessing precision, and that the machine recommended by Omega should be used to do this. So he took the watch to his machine, let the watch sit on the machine for about 30 seconds and let me know that the watch looked to be "spot on." He nevertheless offered to test the watch in several different positions for 7-10 days on his machine and get back to me.

About a week and a few days after, I got the call that the watch needed a new mainspring. I was told that the service by an Omega certified watchmaker is covered by warranty for 2 years, so there was no additional cost involved with replacing the mainspring. I received the watch back last week with the new mainspring. Again, I was told that the watch was "spot on" in terms of time keeping (tested by his Omega recommended machine) and I should just enjoy the watch knowing that a) it's a watch from 1985; and b) that I'm covered by a 2-year warranty.

For the couple of days, the watch lost about 75 seconds a day. I noticed on the third day the watch had stopped working. Even when the watch was fully wound, the seconds hand seemed to be stuck around the 15 second index. Sometimes when I put it on, the seconds hand would move, but when it came back to the 15 second index it would stop again.

It's already been a total of about 4 months now since sending it in for service the first time. I'm not excited about the idea of sending it back for a third time. This my first vintage service. I find myself a little lost on how to proceed.
What would you guys do?

Charlie

 

[Jones in LA]

Wow, what a nightmare!

I don't have any specific advice on where to go from here, but hopefully fellow Forum member and authorized Omega watchmaker, @Archer will chime in with an assessment of your options. Best wishes for a satisfactory resolution.

 

[SC1]

charleswonjun

What would you guys do?

Charlie

Be upset.
And then wait for @Archer to show up with some solid advice.

 

[wagudc]

At some point you have to ask yourself if this is a person you want working on your cherished watch. I know $850 is a lot of money, but I would walk away and find a good watchmaker to get the watch running right. The one you have now appears to be a hack, you can find recommendations here.

 

[Larry S]

charleswonjun

Hey guys,
I sent in my 145.022 Speedy that had stopped running for service with an Omega certified watchmaker in mid July of this year.

I was charged a flat fee of $850 for which the invoice states, "Vintage Overhaul." I received the watch around just over 2 months after sending it in. Within a week of receiving the watch, I noticed that the watch was losing between 40 to 60 seconds a day. I don't have a sophisticated timegrapher, but it wasn't difficult to diagnose this given how much time the watch was losing.

I let the watchmaker know of this issue, but I was told that manually keeping track of the seconds deviations from the time on an atomic clock was not a reliable way of assessing precision, and that the machine recommended by Omega should be used to do this. So he took the watch to his machine, let the watch sit on the machine for about 30 seconds and let me know that the watch looked to be "spot on." He nevertheless offered to test the watch in several different positions for 7-10 days on his machine and get back to me.

About a week and a few days after, I got the call that the watch needed a new mainspring. I was told that the service by an Omega certified watchmaker is covered by warranty for 2 years, so there was no additional cost involved with replacing the mainspring. I received the watch back last week with the new mainspring. Again, I was told that the watch was "spot on" in terms of time keeping (tested by his Omega recommended machine) and I should just enjoy the watch knowing that a) it's a watch from 1985; and b) that I'm covered by a 2-year warranty.

For the couple of days, the watch lost about 75 seconds a day. I noticed on the third day the watch had stopped working. Even when the watch was fully wound, the seconds hand seemed to be stuck around the 15 second index. Sometimes when I put it on, the seconds hand would move, but when it came back to the 15 second index it would stop again.

It's already been a total of about 4 months now since sending it in for service the first time. I'm not excited about the idea of sending it back for a third time. This my first vintage service. I find myself a little lost on how to proceed.
What would you guys do?

Charlie

We can help you more effectively in finding a competent watchmaker if you tell us roughly where you live.

 

[gbesq]

I would request at least a partial refund and find a new watchmaker who is competent. Regulating a movement shouldn’t be that difficult. My watches routinely come back from my watchmaker running at +/- 2-3 SPD and those include many manual wind Omegas that are 50-70 years old.

 

[bmpennington]

Hi, this sounds unacceptable to me. I would see if you can get money back. I have an incredible watch maker in the US, just private message me if you need help. FYI I would never get a watch serviced from the manufacturer again. There are reputable watchmakers who have a much shorter turn around time and charge far less. The also use OEM parts.

 

[Dan S]

Apparently, there is an issue that the watchmaker hasn't yet addressed. You mention the seconds hand stopping. Are you referring to the running seconds or sweep seconds? I'm just curious if this is a general problem with the watch or specifically the chronograph.

 

[charleswonjun]

Thank you all for your comments!

@Dan S I'm unsure of the difference between the two, but I am referring to the seconds hand that is always running when the watch is wound, and not the seconds hand that moves when the chronograph is turned on. I noticed that at some angles, the seconds hand will move, but many times it will stall as soon as it comes back between the 15 and 20 second indices. When it is face up, this happens with certainty. My watch is currently fully wound, sitting face up, with the seconds hand completely still at the 16 second index.

 

[Spacefruit]

🤨
I sent in my 145.022 Speedy that had stopped running for service with an Omega certified watchmaker in mid July of this year.

You seen the evidence? Just curious

 

[Archer]

Lots to unpack here...so it might seem like I’m asking dumb questions, but sometimes the issue is something simple...

Are you fully winding the watch every day? That means winding the crown until it can’t be wound any longer.

Are you running the chronograph all the time, or a significant portion of the day?

There’s no need to use an Omega approved timing machine to get good timing results, but you do need to use a reliable source. Using something like time.gov works well in my experience. When you say you are using an atomic clock, not really sure what that means. If it is a watch that updates view an atomic clock time signal, they can vary between updates, so I wouldn’t use one for this.

Was the mainspring replaced when the first service was done? It would be very unusual for a new spring to require replacement again, so it sounds like the watchmaker might not have replaced it the first time around, which in my view is a red flag.

The watch is now stopped, but is the chronograph off and reset? If not, you should do that and see if it starts up again.

Are there any hands that appear to be interfering with each other when the watch has stopped? Maybe take a photo of it in the stopped state and post it here...

Cheers, Al

 

[charleswonjun]

Archer

Lots to unpack here...so it might seem like I’m asking dumb questions, but sometimes the issue is something simple...

Are you fully winding the watch every day? That means winding the crown until it can’t be wound any longer.

Are you running the chronograph all the time, or a significant portion of the day?

There’s no need to use an Omega approved timing machine to get good timing results, but you do need to use a reliable source. Using something like time.gov works well in my experience. When you say you are using an atomic clock, not really sure what that means. If it is a watch that updates view an atomic clock time signal, they can vary between updates, so I wouldn’t use one for this.

Was the mainspring replaced when the first service was done? It would be very unusual for a new spring to require replacement again, so it sounds like the watchmaker might not have replaced it the first time around, which in my view is a red flag.

The watch is now stopped, but is the chronograph off and reset? If not, you should do that and see if it starts up again.

Are there any hands that appear to be interfering with each other when the watch has stopped? Maybe take a photo of it in the stopped state and post it here...

Cheers, Al

Hi Al,

When the watch was functioning, yes - I was winding the watch fully every day. The watchmaker had also advised on doing this.

Other than the time I tested works, I don't run the chronograph. This is because after the first service, the watchmaker had advised that I shouldn't keep my chronograph on for extended periods of time. Also after the first service, I tried operating the chronograph at the watchmaker's shop. A couple of the times, the chronograph did not reset to 0 - the seconds hand (the biggest hand on the watch) and minutes chronograph hand (hand on subregister at 3) would stop short of coming back to its normal resting position. There was an explanation for this from the watchmaker: the watch should be sufficiently wound for the chronograph to work properly (I don't think it was fully wound when I tried); and I should press the chronograph buttons firmly to have the hands reset. I found his suggestions helpful (his suggestions worked). But after I left the shop, I never really used the chronograph function.

For timing, I don't remember if I was using time.gov. I simply googled "atomic clock time" and timed my watch using the first search result (it was some government of science lab website). Later, I tried an app called WatchTracker that simply tracks the deviation between the time my watch is showing and the time shown on an atomic clock (this may not be time.gov). The app required me to provide data points throughout the day by tapping on a part of my screen when my watch told a certain time (e.g., 3:15:30 PM). Whichever method I used, the result was similar - after the first service, the watch lost around 45 seconds/day on wrist, and close to 60 when not worn. After the second service, the watch consistently lost around 75 seconds/day for the few days it was working.

The watchmaker did not explicitly mention that the mainspring was replaced during the first service. But the watch service estimate (for the first service) did mention "broken mainspring, damaged chrono striker," so I'm guessing the reason the watch stopped working before I sent it for service was due to a broken mainspring (there was no service estimate paperwork for the second service). The watch was running after the first service before sending it in for a second time to be regulated, so it's likely that the mainspring was replaced. To be fair, before I agreed to having my watch serviced with him, he did make it clear that he wouldn't normally let me know what exactly needed to be replaced when sending me an estimate/invoice.

Per one of your questions, Al, I just checked to see whether the chronograph is off and is reset. 1) it wasn’t turned on and it is reset (I checked and also reset using the chronograph buttons to double check); but 2) I noticed that the watch is running again.

Now I’m really confused. I've taken a video that shows when the running seconds hand stops moving between the 15 and 20 seconds index (when the watch is fully wound). Is there a way to share this video here?

Apologies for the long post - I thought it best to provide all the details given the circumstances.

Thanks,

Charlie

 

[charleswonjun]

charleswonjun

Hi Al,
Per one of your questions, Al, I just checked to see whether the chronograph is off and is reset. 1) it wasn’t turned on and it is reset (I checked and also reset using the chronograph buttons to double check); but 2) I noticed that the watch is running again.

@Archer
Just to be clear - the watch was already running before I pushed the chronograph button to check whether the chronograph was fully reset.
Thanks,
Charlie

 

[gbesq]

If you want to upload the video, make yourself a channel on YouTube or Vimeo (easily done), upload the video to the channel, and then post a link to the video here.

 

[Archer]

Thanks - all good and sounds like there's no "operator error" things going on here. The video I think you would have to upload to a hosting site and post a link, so YouTube, Vimeo or something like that.

 

[charleswonjun]

Archer

Thanks - all good and sounds like there's no "operator error" things going on here. The video I think you would have to upload to a hosting site and post a link, so YouTube, Vimeo or something like that.

I've uploaded the video to my Dropbox - hopefully you're able to view it!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1rd2n6k5x8f4ngv/Video Nov 05, 9 30 59 AM.mov?dl=0

 

[Archer]

charleswonjun

I've uploaded the video to my Dropbox - hopefully you're able to view it!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1rd2n6k5x8f4ngv/Video Nov 05, 9 30 59 AM.mov?dl=0

Exactly what I was expecting to see. The constant seconds hand is hitting the hour hand. This is simply poor work on the part of the watchmaker.

There's a chance that there are times when it only barely scrapes by, so this may be causing the hand to slow down as it does so, leading to the loss of time you are seeing. If the watchmaker has it on their timing machine when the hands are not interfering, then they would see the watch running just fine. This is an easy fix for any competent watchmaker.

 

[Risto]

We have like a couple of watchmakers in Estonia who would work on Swiss vintage watches. And one of them used to work in the Omega service center. He serviced recently one watch for me. It was running 30+ sec slow after the service. The watchmaker said: "Well, do you expect a 50-year-old watch to run at factory specs? Not possible!" I am hoping he's wrong.

 

[charleswonjun]

Archer

Exactly what I was expecting to see. The constant seconds hand is hitting the hour hand. This is simply poor work on the part of the watchmaker.

There's a chance that there are times when it only barely scrapes by, so this may be causing the hand to slow down as it does so, leading to the loss of time you are seeing. If the watchmaker has it on their timing machine when the hands are not interfering, then they would see the watch running just fine. This is an easy fix for any competent watchmaker.

Thank you for this, Al. This supports the watchmaker's claim that his machine reports the watch to be keeping good time This is something I can talk to the watchmaker about. There's hope!

My goodness this was cool. Thank you, @Archer . Thank you OF!

 

[MtV]

Archer

This is an easy fix for any competent watchmaker.

Given that (if I read this correctly) he had two chances of fixing it and couldnt, and seemed to have done something completely unrelated instead (replace the main spring), might it be a good idea to approach Omega with this? Politely tell the story, mention that you've lost your confidence in the abilities of said watchmaker and ask if there is another way, have Omega fix it, for example? I'd assume the service bill might make them cooperative.

I don't know, people make mistakes and all, but since he seems to be overwhelmed by the watch, it might be a good idea to have somebody else fix this. Yes, you know now what the issue is and that'll make it easier for the WM, but I'd be left wondering what else there is he might have done half-heartedly. Am I being too harsh?