Is this Oyster dial original? Hmmm

Modest_Proposal · Aug 3, 2020

I've stayed away from Rolex ever since I started collecting for.... reasons. Still, I bought a small collection and this was among them. The dial puzzles me and I don't have a lot of reference knowledge.

I would think it was original (nos) except for the crude 7. But maybe this was a factory consistency issue? Or a later touch up? The watch is around the 30mm range. Maybe there are other issues Rolex collectors will spot. Please let me know your thoughts.

If you click on the images, you'll get high res photos.
.

Modest_Proposal · Aug 3, 2020

I was reuploading the pics for better quality. Let me know if you can see them now.

Modest_Proposal · Aug 3, 2020

Here's another few.

S.H. · Aug 3, 2020

Scream redial to me...

Also, Rolex dials speaking German? (genuinely asking, because I don't know, but feels strange)

Modest_Proposal · Aug 3, 2020

S.H.
Scream redial to me...

Also, Rolex dials speaking German? (genuinely asking, because I don't know, but feels strange)

The dial is double signed. Here is another example of the signature.

http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/lot.1621.html/2005/important-watches-hk0223

janice&fred · Aug 3, 2020

S.H.
Also, Rolex dials speaking German?

Some from that era also speak Pall Mall. What bothers me is probably what concerns the OP, that is the dial is a fresh as if it was made yesterday. Same with the hands. I would be amazed if it was original given the age.

S.H. · Aug 3, 2020

Modest_Proposal
The dial is double signed. Here is another example of the signature.

http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/lot.1621.html/2005/important-watches-hk0223

Not what I understand as a "double signature" like Cartier, Türler and Tiffany's. Stossicher means shock resisting, I did not knew that Rolex produced dials specifically for the German market. And I don't like this dial either 😒, but that's just my opinion...

JwRosenthal · Aug 3, 2020

But check out the differences on the “Swiss Made”. The first one runs into the minute track.
The lume on the dial and hands look orginal to me...but that Swiss made....😵‍💫

if you look at both side by side, there are serious differences here. Sure, if the dial is from a different contractor there will be variances but these are pretty dramatically different- even the hands are different

S.H. · Aug 3, 2020

JwRosenthal
But check out the differences on the “Swiss Made”. The first one runs into the minute track.
The lume on the dial and hands look orginal to me...but that Swiss made....😵‍💫

if you look at both side by side, there are serious differences here. Sure, if the dial is from a different contractor there will be variances but these are pretty dramatically different- even the hands are different

1st dial has too many problems, I say redial. 2nd one, the picture is too fuzzy to be sure. Too clean to be honest anyway, and paired with relumed hands? hmm....

Vitezi · Aug 3, 2020

Another dial example here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/373008853356

kyle L · Aug 3, 2020

How does it look on a Geiger?

ChiefMark · Aug 3, 2020

My interest is piqued. I've found where Sotheby's had watches matching this description listed (and sold) has being "double signed" by the German retailer "Stossicher". This tells me that the people at Sotheby's are apparently philistines without access to a German English dictionary. (My apologies to Sotheby's, but really?)

The word does indeed (as noted above) meean simply "Shock resistant" or "shock proof" and is certainly not the name of a retailer. I'm interested because it does seem an oddity, but these reference 3478 Rolexes with German dials are easy to find online.

This dial has issues other than the German (which may not be an issue after all) but I'm interested in the origin of the watches now.

S.H. · Aug 3, 2020

Vitezi
Another dial example here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/373008853356

Interesting... digits are blotchy, stossicher is misaligned, swiss made is misaligned and feels like an afterthought. Looks identical to the Sotheby's dial. Genuine blank dial reworked by an importer? Redial? I'd stay away from it myself.

Tony C. · Aug 3, 2020

C ChiefMark
This tells me that the people at Sotheby's are apparently philistines without access to a German English dictionary. (My apologies to Sotheby's, but really?)

These kind of absurd mistakes are, sadly, common in auctions. I bought a nice Deco clock recently that was described as having a "blocked" movement, suggesting, of course, that it was not possible to wind it. Well, when it arrived, it wound perfectly and works fine. What happened? Most clocks of that era wind counter-clockwise, and the "experts" at the auction house apparently only tried it clockwise. 😁

gatorcpa · Aug 3, 2020

I have seen Rolex dials from 1940’s and 1950’s with German certification language, so this example does not surprise me.

I find it interesting that the OP’s example and the eBay example have the same flaws in the dial printing running into the sub seconds register.

Given that the condition of the steel case in the OP example is as nice as the dial, I would lean towards original, but I think more research is warranted.

Nice find!
gatorcpa

Scarecrow Boat · Aug 3, 2020

Tony C.
Most clocks of that era wind counter-clockwise, and the "experts" at the auction house apparently only tried it clockwise. 😁

I guess you can say, they weren’t very clock wise themselves.

I’ll see myself out.

airansun · Aug 3, 2020

Given the color, isn’t OP’s dial, at a minimum, a relume? The color doesn’t look like aged radium at all, and the hands lume exactly matches the dial lume, another tell.

On the other hand, the caseback looks pretty sharp and fresh.

🍿

choon1 · Aug 3, 2020

Looks like a clear re-dial to me given condition and "7" smudging onto seconds subdial.

Caliber561 · Aug 3, 2020

airansun
Given the color, isn’t OP’s dial, at a minimum, a relume? The color doesn’t look like aged radium at all, and the hands lume exactly matches the dial lume, another tell.

On the other hand, the caseback looks pretty sharp and fresh.

🍿

I think it looks fine. If you look closely at the hands, you can see slight rusting among the blued steel endemic of watches from this period. I also think the dial lume shows the correct crystalline structure of Radium-based lume, as well as some slight lume molding. That said, I'm not a Rolex collector, and the hands/lume could have been transplanted from another watch.

Edit: I just realized you can see a radium burn at the 12 o'clock position. Wouldn't that indicate an original dial?

airansun · Aug 3, 2020

Caliber561
Edit: I just realized you can see a radium burn at the 12 o'clock position. Wouldn't that indicate an original dial?

That’s a good point, I see it too. Of course, that doesn’t mean somebody didn’t knock the radium out and replace it.

None of the radium watches I have show this color and none have such nicely matching hands and dial lume. But, I suspect radium lume formulas from back in the day varied somewhat, producing different aged colors.

I’ve never seen in-hand any radium Rolex that was in mint condition, so I can’t be sure.

Is this Oyster dial original? Hmmm

Modest_Proposal

Modest_Proposal

Modest_Proposal

S.H.

Modest_Proposal

janice&fred

S.H.

JwRosenthal

S.H.

Vitezi

kyle L

ChiefMark

S.H.

Tony C.

gatorcpa

Scarecrow Boat

airansun

choon1

Caliber561

airansun

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