Is this an authentic « WWI era » Omega trench watch ?

[Green_P0ison]

Hello everybody.

I’m asking your advice today about a particular watch that I would want to buy. It’s what’s looks to be a WWI era omega trench watch. I don’t have any knowledge regarding this particular kind of watches (even if I have a few « goussets » and I tried to do my best to make some researches. I searched on google and here on OF (https://omegaforums.net/threads/nice-omega-trench.19096/ ; https://omegaforums.net/threads/omega-regina-trench-watches.62646/ ; https://omegaforums.net/threads/early-omega-wristwatch.33026/page-3 ) and couldn’t find any mechanism that would look identical to this one.

Here are the pictures :



The serial number of the mechanism would confirm the watch was made between 1915 and 1923 but what is surprising is that there isn’t any omega inscriptions on it even if according to my research all omega mechanisms should be marked as such. After looking a bit more I found a mechanism that looks very similar and described as an « Early omega wristwatch movement » but not sure if it’s the same one.. :



The seller is asking approx 300 € for the watch, what do you think about the authenticity of the watch? I really love the design of the watch and I really think it could be a unique addition to my small collection.

Thanks in advance for all your help and greeting from Brussels!

Edit : forgot to mention the link where I found the Information concerning the mechanism, here it is : https://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/omega.php

Edited: Nov 5, 2021

 

[SkunkPrince]

Love it! If you don't take it, I will!

 

[JwRosenthal]

Paging @SkunkPrince

 

[JwRosenthal]

SkunkPrince

Love it! If you don't take it, I will!

I’m next in line

 

[Green_P0ison]

SkunkPrince

Love it! If you don't take it, I will!

JwRosenthal

I’m next in line

Thanks for your replies guys! You’ve made me laugh I’ll definitely buy it then. And if one day I want to part with it you’ll be the first ones to be informed, I promise!

Thanks again! I’ll let you know when the watch arrives

 

[Green_P0ison]

Update : I also asked the seller some pictures of the case markings. He sent me this :



And the seller confirms that there isn’t any omega logo on the case and thinks that this could be a watch sold to the US market. Is that possible? When looking at these numbers they indeed look like omega case markings but on the other side it could also be an aftermarket case. I’m just not sure enough. Maybe someone could help?

Thanks again!

 

[OMTOM]

The movement of the watch is an 'SI'. The SI and LI (lepine version) were made by the Louis Brandt operation, mainly for the 'sister brands' of Celtic (and then Regina). Hence the possibility of the US involvement. The dating of this looks to be about 1917 - so it does look as though it's the trench watch you describe.

 

[Fallout Boy]

Is this an aluminium-case?
Reminds me (ref. the dial) to an AR 709 ( like the signal corps) with the diameter 35 mm with this

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?00&ranfft&&2uswk&Omega_12_sav

caliber.....but unmarked???

unsure they did not stamp the (mil.)- movement for the us-market???

 

[OMTOM]

To @Fallout Boy - sorry but that's a completely different movement. That's a true Omega savonette movement (quite different from the OP's watch).

 

[DaveK]

I don’t know what years or movements were unmarked - @Canuck would - but knowing it would drive collectors nuts 100 years down the road, Omega did sign some movements on the dial side back in the day

 

[Fallout Boy]

@OMTOM OK, sorry.....I was looking at the wrong picture in the first post.



this is the movement... sorry.

 

[SkunkPrince]

That's probably a nickel-alloy case. The dial was marked for WWI, so nickel makes sense.

As for cased in North America, as Canada would be equally likely, I'm thinking probably not, since that is not a negative-set movement, as was common in North America at the time.

 

[Green_P0ison]

Thanks to everyone for their opinions! So to sum up the explanation of the lacking of omega markings on the case and on the movement would be that indeed this was a watch that was not made in Switzerland but sold by omega (or Louis Brandt at the time) in another market (US or Canada)?

 

[OMTOM]

Green_P0ison

not made in Switzerland

On the contrary, I think it probably WAS made in Switzerland - and if you were really interested, you could ask them whether an Extract of the Archives is available (I'm not up-to-date, maybe CHF 120?). You have the case number and movement number and it's worth asking.

 

[Green_P0ison]

OMTOM

On the contrary, I think it probably WAS made in Switzerland - and if you were really interested, you could ask them whether an Extract of the Archives is available (I'm not up-to-date, maybe CHF 120?). You have the case number and movement number and it's worth asking.

Thanks for the clarification. I might have misunderstood what was said. I agree, I think that with this kind of piece it could be worth to ask for an EOA.

 

[SkunkPrince]

Green_P0ison

Thanks for the clarification. I might have misunderstood what was said. I agree, I think that with this kind of piece it could be worth to ask for an EOA.

Partially my fault. Movements sold to North America were usually negative set, which your movement is not. Therefore, it was probably sold in Eurpope.

I wouldn't get too excited about the case. A lot of watches were recased, or a broken movement discarded and a new movement fitted. 100 years after a pretty serious war, anything could have happened. As long as the movement actuallly fits the case, you're fine.

 

[Green_P0ison]

SkunkPrince

Partially my fault. Movements sold to North America were usually negative set, which your movement is not. Therefore, it was probably sold in Eurpope.

I wouldn't get too excited about the case. A lot of watches were recased, or a broken movement discarded and a new movement fitted. 100 years after a pretty serious war, anything could have happened. As long as the movement actuallly fits the case, you're fine.

Ok so it’s more likely to be an aftermarket case that was refitted to the watch later on? Or again I’m mixing up everything? Sorry again for my lack of knowledge I am really trying my best to follow up (I am 21 years old and collecting for less than 2 years so I have really a looot to learn..)

 

[SkunkPrince]

Green_P0ison

Ok so it’s more likely to be an aftermarket case that was refitted to the watch later on? Or again I’m mixing up everything? Sorry again for my lack of knowledge I am really trying my best to follow up (I am 21 years old and collecting for less than 2 years so I have really a looot to learn..)

We really don't know. I guess that's the point, anything could have happened, or nothing could have happened. That the case is not marked Omega implies that the case was not necessarily made by Omega, but you can't prove a negative proposition.

In this case, for your own piece of mind, appreciate what you have now and speculate a bit less on what might have been. You'll learn more as time goes on.

 

[Green_P0ison]

SkunkPrince

Anything could have happened, or nothing could have happened. Appreciate what you have now and speculate a bit less on what might have been. You'll learn more as time goes on.

Beautifully said and a really wise advice. Thanks again for taking the time to answer to my questions!

I’ll keep you informed with some pictures when this beauty arrives

 

[Green_P0ison]

Ok guys, this was fast! The watch is already here

Here are some pictures :



As you can see the interior cover is unfolded/broken on one side (the seller mentioned it). As I noticed that it was damaging the case I preferred to take it off until I drop it for a service at my watchmaker.

I’m absolutely amazed about this watch and I already love it! I’ll keep you updated with some wrist shots when the watch will come back from my watchmaker.

Thanks again for all your help! And greetings from Brussels