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Is this 145.012-67 Speedmaster worth buying?

jolyon
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Hi all, I have been offered a 145.012-67 Speedmaster for £3800. It has aftermarket bezel, re-lumed hands, no original bracelet and no box or papers, plus there is a previous owner’s name engraved on the caseback. I suspect the crown and pushers are service parts and I’m guessing the hesalite crystal is too. It also looks to me that the case has been polished but I’m not totally sure about that. I think the dial is original and not relumed, but not sure about that either. The watch is apparently running with no issues.
I’m not a total purist, and I would personally rock this watch on a bulang & sons leather nato and enjoy it for what it is. But I don’t want to pay an amount of money that would mean if I need to sell it, nobody wants it or I can’t get a similar amount back for it. I would be interested to know if this is worth the money or if I should pass or offer less.
Thanks in advance!

IMG_3296.webp IMG_3297.webp IMG_3298.webp IMG_3299.webp IMG_3300.webp IMG_3301.webp
 
pdxleaf
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jolyon jolyon
But I don’t want to pay an amount of money that would mean if I need to sell it, nobody wants it or I can’t get a similar amount back for it.
You're right to question this and your instincts are good. This isn't a watch for a collector, IMHO, which means a smaller pool of people who might want it.

You could get it relumed with a better color and that would make a nicer looking daily. Dial looks unscratched at a casual glance. Add an inexpensive Uncle Seiko bracelet and it could be a decent beater. If it needs a service then that'll be another chunk of change.

Hope this helps. Not a right answer, as everyone is different. If your finances are tight and you want a cheap 321, then maybe it's not the best way to spend your money. A nicer 861 145.022 would be a better buy and nicer to look at.
 
jolyon
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pdxleaf pdxleaf
You're right to question this and your instincts are good. This isn't a watch for a collector, IMHO, which means a smaller pool of people who might want it.

You could get it relumed with a better color and that would make a nicer looking daily. Dial looks unscratched at a casual glance. Add an inexpensive Uncle Seiko bracelet and it could be a decent beater. If it needs a service then that'll be another chunk of change.

Hope this helps. Not a right answer, as everyone is different. If your finances are tight and you want a cheap 321, then maybe it's not the best way to spend your money. A nicer 861 145.022 would be a better buy and nicer to look at.
Thank you for the detailed take - that does make sense. My intention is a mix of watch I can enjoy + liquid asset that can easily be turned back into cash. Based on what you say, this watch is no good for the latter..
 
jolyon
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Davidt Davidt
Well what do you think?
I think the movement is nice and the dial seems good. If the case is not polished it would have some things going for it. But it obviously has a lot of flaws too. I would have said around £3600-3800, but I’m not confident at all
 
Davidt
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The dial has been stripped of all its lume so it lacks the character of a vintage dial.

You could get a replacement bezel, relume the dial, relume the hands and get it serviced but you’re well over £1000 with that (£2000+ with a dot over ninety bezel), then you’re at £6k for a watch that has had a lot of work. Bear in mind the price for a good 145.012-67 is around £5-7k so no one’s going to pay that for a watch that is relumed etc.

These watches are good at a certain price point. For me that price point is somewhere where they can be bought and enjoyed as-is cheaply or restored to a degree that makes financial sense.

This is a very similar watch I sold a few months ago. It had replacement (but genuine bezel and hands) and like yours, no lume on the dial. However, I’d say the one I sold was more attractive and had been serviced in the last few years by one of the best watchmakers in the UK. I sold it for almost £1000 less.

https://omegaforums.net/threads/vintage-omega-speedmaster-transitional-861-ref-145-022-68.185977/ Cover Image
Thread 'Vintage Omega Speedmaster Transitional 861 ref 145.022-68' ·
Offering for sale a ‘68 transitional Speedmaster 145.022-68.
If you’re looking for a collector grade 60’s Speedmaster well, this isn’t for you. If you’re looking for a nice wearable Transitional...
SOLD
£ 2995
Davidt ·
 
jolyon
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Davidt Davidt
The dial has been stripped of all its lume so it lacks the character of a vintage dial.

You could get a replacement bezel, relume the dial, relume the hands and get it serviced but you’re well over £1000 with that (£2000+ with a dot over ninety bezel), then you’re at £6k for a watch that has had a lot of work. Bear in mind the price for a good 145.012-67 is around £5-7k so no one’s going to pay that for a watch that is relumed etc.

These watches are good at a certain price point. For me that price point is somewhere where they can be bought and enjoyed as-is cheaply or restored to a degree that makes financial sense.

This is a very similar watch I sold a few months ago. It had replacement (but genuine bezel and hands) and like yours, no lume on the dial. However, I’d say the one I sold was more attractive and had been serviced in the last few years by one of the best watchmakers in the UK. I sold it for almost £1000 less.

https://omegaforums.net/threads/vintage-omega-speedmaster-transitional-861-ref-145-022-68.185977/ Cover Image
Thread 'Vintage Omega Speedmaster Transitional 861 ref 145.022-68' ·
Offering for sale a ‘68 transitional Speedmaster 145.022-68.
If you’re looking for a collector grade 60’s Speedmaster well, this isn’t for you. If you’re looking for a nice wearable Transitional...
SOLD
£ 2995
Davidt ·
That is a very clean watch you sold!
 
Ron_W
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pdxleaf pdxleaf
A nicer 861 145.022 would be a better buy and nicer to look at.
+ 1 , and easier to find multiple options for that budget.
 
Dan S
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I don't see any lume on the dial, case brushing is gone. A real hack has been working on the movement. Something weird is going on around the outside of the dial, maybe it's just a gap left because of the aftermarket crystal retaining ring, I don't know.

It's really an unappealing watch, and it would not be easy to find a buyer unless you offered it dirt cheap. I can't imagine paying real money for it.
Edited:
 
jolyon
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Dan S Dan S
I don't see any lume on the dial, case brushing is gone. A real hack has been working on the movement. Something weird is going on around the outside of the dial, maybe it's just a gap left because of the aftermarket crystal retaining ring, I don't know.

It's really an unappealing watch, and it would not be easy to find a buyer unless you offered it dirt cheap. I can't imagine paying real money for it.
Really appreciate the insight, thank you
 
Spacefruit
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If you bought that for £3800, what do you think an eBay sale would bring tomorrow?

Pretty sure it would get valued for parts - and I can’t see parts adding up to 3800
 
cristos71
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I'm another fan of getting a later Speedmaster in way better condition rather than making all these condition concessions for what exactly, just to get a 321? Not worth it IMHO and certainly not at anywhere near the asking. Just make sure what you buy has a nice tritium dial and you're good to go. 80's or 90's.
 
jolyon
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Spacefruit Spacefruit
If you bought that for £3800, what do you think an eBay sale would bring tomorrow?

Pretty sure it would get valued for parts - and I can’t see parts adding up to 3800
You’re probably right! Most of the parts are too worn or messed with to have a value
 
jolyon
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cristos71 cristos71
I'm another fan of getting a later Speedmaster in way better condition rather than making all these condition concessions for what exactly, just to get a 321? Not worth it IMHO and certainly not at anywhere near the asking. Just make sure what you buy has a nice tritium dial and you're good to go. 80's or 90's.
Having read these comments, I’m pretty set on backing off this watch now! The seller originally wanted £4450 for it and was saying how these watches usually go for £8000, so I highly doubt he would accept £2800 or whatever its real liquid value is.
What are your thoughts on speedmasters that are built from real Service parts such as Lewis Watches? I find those really fun, but not sure if there is any liquidity in them. I saw a 321 powered watch built from service parts for $6250 and I personally think it’s a great watch for the money, but my concern is getting stuck with it if I need the money back.
 
Evitzee
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Sounds like the seller is looking for someone who doesn't know what he's buying, don't be that guy.

Selling a watch made up from service parts in a non-standard configuration is always challenging, you can't flip it quickly, and valuing it is always more difficult. You can go that route, but be aware of the challenges when you want to sell it (and maybe servicing it).

Even if you have a nice, unmolested vintage watch they usually aren't easy to quickly flip. Selling is always a hassle, even more so if you need cash in short order.
Edited:
 
jolyon
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I have transparently shared the link to this thread with the seller. It may still be possible to work out a deal since I like the watch, but it needs to be a fair market price for both of us.
Thank you very much to everyone who shared their knowledge.
 
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