Is there QC inconsistency with modern zenith, also what about other brands and vintage?

ELV web · Jan 2, 2015

Hi Forum members,

I am a total noob that just cross the fence into zenith last week, came across many interesting anecdotes and now on top of PP, VC and UG, I started to want to get my hands on Zenith to the detrimental of my financial health 😜 . The subject matter today is QC in production. I have come across a thread in WUS (I personally prefer OF by a mile because of how user friendly and modern the interface feels+its super open policy). But there was this interesting thread that talks about how QC is really miles apart for zenith 1969 models especially on the dial quality (I don't want to go into finishing as to me it gets very technical and kind of too picky, and I must admit that i just don't want to discover the flaws on the zenith I just obtained). Here are some pictures of the QC issues, kindly note how the index minute markers overlap and/or not overlap into inner dial and the outer minute number touches the inner ring and outer edge and/or just sit in the middle with out touching. Plus the paint pattern on the numerals in the subdial. The link of the disccusion can also be found here. With much more gruesome details magnified....
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f71/ze...ing-10th-under-microscope-82-pics-772368.html

I am quite lucky in a sense that the watch that just came to me seem to have decent QC on the dial (I.e. No overlapping in what ever shape or form of the minute index marker and the outer minute numbers are all properly spaced not touching the outer edge nor inner ring. Subdial prints look decent) but I am afraid if I bring a loupe to the movement I will be seeing quite a number of flaws as well..... So what are your thoughts on this, is it normal/acceptable for high end brands? Was the old zenith vintage better made? Thanks and looking forward to hear and learn as from OF as usual 😀. I still consider myself a newbie as I started buying watch only May 2013 when I decided to find my wife a anniversary/birthday gift (ended up getting a 1912 PP ladies watch, and was really hanging with PP and auctions for a while until I discovered VC and ebay and then in early 2014 the UG forum). I could have used a lot of good directions and wisdom back then as well as now 😜

Eric

Stewart H · Jan 2, 2015

I remember that thread. IIRC, the poster had bought a grey market piece off the web and photographed it using a microscope. There is every possibility that it had been serviced and that could account for some of the issues. There is also the question of how/why it entered the grey market and we could speculate on that for ever.

What you have is a great watch that you should enjoy and wear with pride.

ELV web · Jan 2, 2015

Stewart H
I remember that thread. IIRC, the poster had bought a grey market piece off the web and photographed it using a microscope. There is every possibility that it had been serviced and that could account for some of the issues. There is also the question of how/why it entered the grey market and we could speculate on that for ever.

What you have is a great watch that you should enjoy and wear with pride.

The problem is more I am liking it too much (first modern watch!) But also will be nice to have a better understanding/perspective/wisdom of the modern market vs. The vintage too.

STANDY · Jan 2, 2015

Second post is a cracker on that other site

Put anything under a microscope and you will see flaws. My girl is a entomologist and i have a you beaut microscope next to the computer and learnt to stop looking at watches with it years ago. Funny as my GP had the best movement for age.

ELV web · Jan 2, 2015

STANDY
Second post is a cracker on that other site

Put anything under a microscope and you will see flaws. My girl is a entomologist and i have a you beaut microscope next to the computer and learnt to stop looking at watches with it years ago. Funny as my GP had the best movement for age.

Yep, I think the movement under microscope is too nit picking and chances are if you go that far to scrutinize, you will sure find flaws which shouldn't really be a cause for concern in the first place....

Hijak · Jan 2, 2015

It was posts like this that drove me from WUS. Any one looking at their watch under a microscope is getting far too picky, maybe their in the wrong hobby. Eric your Zenith is fantastic, these 1/10th of a second El Primiros are horology at its best...I'm a little jealous!😎

LouS · Jan 2, 2015

Hijak
It was posts like this that drove me from WUS.

+1. Trolling with magnification.

Fritz · Jan 2, 2015

After 20+ years in QA in bearings, automotive, medical & aviation parts, I've really had enough of looking at parts under a scope and arguing with machinists over 0.0001"..... its nice to look at something with the naked eye and, since it looks good, believe that it is good.

If it looks good on my wrist, its okay, I'll leave my loop in its case.

applebook · Jan 3, 2015

The points about over-magnification are reasonable, and I agree with them, but some of the flaws on that Striking 10th are so egregious that they're discernible with your naked eye. The minute track extending over into the inner dial is unacceptable because it's not part of Zenith's original design. It's a quality control issue at Zenith's dial supplier Fehr & Cie, who supply for many other Swiss brands also. Much of what the photographs document are acceptable to me given that VpH/ Striking 10th dials are so complex and involve significant hand finishing.

http://zenith.watchprosite.com/show...-at-dial-maker-fehr-cie-sa-official-report-i/

I suppose that I'm fortunate that my VpH looks perfect to me. If I got the aforementioned 10th from Amazon, I'd return it too and never buy from them again. The movement appears like it's been tampered with. Everything about it screams "b-stock." The whole package is far worse than Walt Odet's infamous Rolex Explorer article.

BTW, most of the higher end brands that I've owned have similar dial and hand imperfections. A Blancpain Aqualung that I had was particularly awful, with lume poorly applied and spilling outside of indices. Rolex dials, in my experience, appear the most pristine under intense magnification, but even they with all of their space-age tech aren't perfect.

ELV web · Jan 3, 2015

applebook
The points about over-magnification are reasonable, and I agree with them, but some of the flaws on that Striking 10th are so egregious that they're discernible with your naked eye. The minute track extending over into the inner dial is unacceptable because it's not part of Zenith's original design. It's a quality control issue at Zenith's dial supplier Fehr & Cie, who supply for many other Swiss brands also. Much of what the photographs document are acceptable to me given that VpH/ Striking 10th dials are so complex and involve significant hand finishing.

http://zenith.watchprosite.com/show...-at-dial-maker-fehr-cie-sa-official-report-i/

I suppose that I'm fortunate that my VpH looks perfect to me. If I got the aforementioned 10th from Amazon, I'd return it too and never buy from them again. The movement appears like it's been tampered with. Everything about it screams "b-stock." The whole package is far worse than Walt Odet's infamous Rolex Explorer article.

BTW, most of the higher end brands that I've owned have similar dial and hand imperfections. A Blancpain Aqualung that I had was particularly awful, with lume poorly applied and spilling outside of indices. Rolex dials, in my experience, appear the most pristine under intense magnification, but even they with all of their space-age tech aren't perfect.

Thanks, first time I heard of Fehr, and your link was great. Learn something new all the time....