Is the Ford dealer taking advantage of me?

Posts
4,786
Likes
24,323
I guess you’re right about them getting paid regardless but it certainly seemed to me they were been overly enthusiastic around the costs she would likely be liable for as they were adamant it wasn’t a warranty claim. I understand a clutch is a wear and tear item but not on a car that’s a year old with less than 5000 miles.

Same reason tires aren't a warranty item necessarily. Has a lot to do with driving style.
Who knows, maybe maybe your mother is out there dumping the clutch and doing smokey burnouts on the weekends haha!
Don't get me wrong, I hate dealerships as much as the next guy, but to me it really sounds like they were trying to do the right thing.
Imagine if they didn't say anything and it turns out NOT to be a warranty claim and then you're on the hook for everything!
Not a fun surprise. Like I said, MOST of the time, clutch is not typically covered. And I think they were just trying to make sure that was understood.

I realize my posts so far seem to be taking the side of the service departments and I'm really not.
I just happen to have worked in the parts/service department of GM dealership and if that taught me one thing its to never trust them! Lol
But that is not to say they are all bad. Some service departments are in fact really good, but if they aren't, then that usually means they are really bad.
There is really not much in between. Like others have said, the best bet is to find a good independent shop.
But those are getting harder to find as well as the tech on these cars keeps getting crazier and crazier.
 
Posts
13,294
Likes
23,087
Yeah I get that, if they put a load of hours into a car to find it’s not a warranty item then the owner has a nasty surprise bill.
There is however the reverse scenario. My mums case was a genuine warranty repair, but they scared her off so she actually went to an independent garage to get the clutch repaired as their quote was significantly less than the AD. It was only because the independent effectively refused the work as he claimed there was no way wear and tear had caused the clutch to fail on such a new car and it should be addressed under warranty. If he hadn’t been so honest and confident about it she’d have ended up shelling out to replace a defective clutch. How many others have gone down this route for what should have been legitimate warranty claims?
 
Posts
29,896
Likes
77,326
Why would they try to scare her to go elsewhere? Warranty claim or not the shop is still getting paid and making money...

Can't say it's the case for this shop, or for all brands, but the mechanics I deal with have told me repeatedly that the "book time" allotted for many warranty repairs is not enough to cover the time it actually takes (brands don't just screw over customers, but mechanics too). So yes, I believe there is an incentive in some cases to have them take the car elsewhere.
 
Posts
4,786
Likes
24,323
Can't say it's the case for this shop, or for all brands, but the mechanics I deal with have told me repeatedly that the "book time" allotted for many warranty repairs is not enough to cover the time it actually takes (brands don't just screw over customers, but mechanics too). So yes, I believe there is an incentive in some cases to have them take the car elsewhere.

Or on the flip side they try to beat that time, which can lead to half assery. But you're right.
And I think that is what separates the good shops from the bad lol.
I saw it all from my seat at the parts counter daily.
 
Posts
380
Likes
492
I picked up the car without paying for the bonus troubleshooting. I might try an independent mechanic, another Ford dealer, or just drive without the safety feature. I did have repairs at this Ford dealer a few years ago that were paid for by insurance. I do remember them pulling the same stunt of asking for multiple payments for the work to progress. I remember them saying I would be on the hook for the extra cost if the insurance did not pay their whole bill. I don't remember ever having this problem with any other auto repair in my life.
 
Posts
2,572
Likes
3,790
t’s federally mandated and applies to all cars.
Precollision monitor is federally mandated now? Didn’t know that.
 
Posts
4,593
Likes
10,810
I picked up the car without paying for the bonus troubleshooting. I might try an independent mechanic, another Ford dealer, or just drive without the safety feature. I did have repairs at this Ford dealer a few years ago that were paid for by insurance. I do remember them pulling the same stunt of asking for multiple payments for the work to progress. I remember them saying I would be on the hook for the extra cost if the insurance did not pay their whole bill. I don't remember ever having this problem with any other auto repair in my life.

You might also try googling the car info and issue your having. Sometimes there are online discussions by qualified mechanics that might point you in the right direction towards the solution to your sensor problem. If it was me I would just drive it as-is. I'd rather drive carefully as most anyone should and to hell with the big buck repair. None of my cars ever had such a sensor, or back up sensor, or lane change sensor and whatever other stuff they dream up and maybe I'm a better driver because of that.
 
Posts
18,244
Likes
27,564
Precollision monitor is federally mandated now? Didn’t know that.
So it used to be seatbelts and airbags as well as associate systems had 7 year warranties.

turns out this is no longer a law.
 
Posts
16,305
Likes
45,005
So it used to be seatbelts and airbags as well as associate systems had 7 year warranties.

turns out this is no longer a law.
I have an outstanding recall on my ‘06 Audi for the airbag and I still am getting notices for it. Very surprised that a safety feature that is mandated is not universally covered.
 
Posts
18,244
Likes
27,564
I have an outstanding recall on my ‘06 Audi for the airbag and I still am getting notices for it. Very surprised that a safety feature that is mandated is not universally covered.
The Takata airbag is a different issue.
 
Posts
898
Likes
1,652
Says who? "Bad wire" could be any number of wires not necessarily the power supply.
The first thing they did was look for DTC codes which may point to a no info from sensor message. Then they pull the sensor plug and look for power,ground,communication. If one is bad then the test wires for continuity from sensor to module. This part may take time and a lot of digging just to get to the modules and connections, so they want cash.
It may not be the power, but I was being brief because internet.
They want cash upfront because the get a lot of refusals to pay because nobody believes how complex a modern car wiring is especially one with safety nannies.
 
Posts
2,572
Likes
3,790
They are not called “stealerships” without reason. OTOH with this type of make/model specific equipment , you might be stuck with the stealer versus an independent shop, since many may not be familiar with this equipment.
 
Posts
7,724
Likes
14,297
Finding electrical, wiring faults in a modern car can be an exercise in frustration, it sounds like the dealer isn't quite sure where the fault lies and wants to cover themselves for the search. It's only going to get worse as we jam more electronic features on our vehicles. I learned from an enthusiasts site that my Focus ST has a BMS (battery maintenance system) that needs to be reset when you change the battery to get the best performance out of the new battery. Sure enough, there is a 16 page Ford Service Bulletin about the system and why it needs to be reset. I had never heard of it, it wasn't in the owner's manual.
 
Posts
1,117
Likes
5,817
I took my old dodge truck to an independent mechanic. Cheaper I live in the country had a rabbit get into the engine compartment the little shit ate the wires so nothing on the dash worked took it to the independent shop 75 bucks to splice the wires back only thing that doesn’t work the seat belt warning that you not using it that’s annoying any ways. But everything works on the dash now. Hope you don’t eat it seems overpriced.
 
Posts
2,735
Likes
3,634
Brought in a 2017 Ford Fusion in for a malfunctioning "pre-collision detection sensor". I believe this system will automatically slam on the brakes if you are about to plow into another car. The auto-following cruise control system stills works. The dealer wanted $180 to perform a diagnostic. The money paid could be used for the cost of the eventual repair. I paid this. The report back is that there is a bad wire (they think), but they need to take more sections of the car apart to continue the diagnostics. They are asking me to pre-pay the labor (another $480) to continue the diagnostics.

My feeling is that there is a worst case scenario of replacing the sensor and wiring, reconnecting the wiring, and then performing a calibration. This should be a known cost that I should be told before moving forward. I am being asked to pay an hourly rate for troubleshooting with no cap or guarantee that they even solve the problem. Is this normal?

I can’t comment on whether your particular case is unusual, only comment that electrical problems can be a bear to troubleshoot. I’ll give an example of a problem I had in my Ford (a 2007 Mustang). This happened circa 2015.

I was having intermittent problems where the car would suddenly go into “limp home mode” at highway speeds. For anyone who has never had this happen, the car basically restricts the max RPMs, speed, and throttle response because the computers have detected something wrong and don’t want to damage the engine. Codes suggested Mass air flow sensor and throttle body, so I replaced those parts myself. Still happened.

Took it to my independent mechanic, they spent several hours trying to troubleshoot (at about $100 per hour), traced it to a control module, and told me to take it to the dealership because they didn’t have the tool to program a new one if it needed to be swapped.

So off to the dealership. They also concluded it was the module, swapped it out and programmed it, but the car kept doing going into LHM. So they started throwing even more parts at it - none worked. They had the car for weeks, and I was getting frustrated.

Now the difference in my experience compared to yours is the shop was very upfront with me that they were not going to charge me until they figured out what was wrong, and also were not going to charge for the parts/labor to install said parts until they verified it fixed the problem. They eventually had to call in a Ford engineer from Detroit to troubleshoot this. Turns out it was a bad solder in one of the fuse boxes that had probably been there from day one and had eventually broken.

Upshot of all this was they charged me for a new fuse box and the labor to install it, and a little bit of diagnostic time. But that’s it. I asked about all the other parts they had swapped in, and the service manager told me that Ford had told them to write them off - it wasn’t worth their time to remove them and put the old parts back in and also not fair to me to charge me for work that didn’t solve my problem. I ended up with several thousand dollars of new parts on an 8-year-old car for free.

I do think in you case, charging a fee in advance is a bit over the top, but I do think you should expect several hours of diagnostic work to isolate the problem. And simply switching out the sensor might not be the correct solution - I suspect they have already tested the sensor and found it works, so the problem is likely upstream from it.
 
Posts
875
Likes
1,050
I concur that the dealer/shop asking for prepayment is odd.

Take it from serial Jaguar owners...

LOL, talk about being a masochist!

Finding electrical, wiring faults in a modern car can be an exercise in frustration...

True that. BTDT. With a Jaguar. And a BMW. Maybe more than once.

There is a USA Federal Law that mandates warranty coverage for emissions control devices (catalytic converters and such) for 8 years and I don't know how many miles, but I don't think there are any such regulations or laws that apply to safety devices or passive restraint systems.