Is the Ford dealer taking advantage of me?

kippyk · Oct 11, 2022

Brought in a 2017 Ford Fusion in for a malfunctioning "pre-collision detection sensor". I believe this system will automatically slam on the brakes if you are about to plow into another car. The auto-following cruise control system stills works. The dealer wanted $180 to perform a diagnostic. The money paid could be used for the cost of the eventual repair. I paid this. The report back is that there is a bad wire (they think), but they need to take more sections of the car apart to continue the diagnostics. They are asking me to pre-pay the labor (another $480) to continue the diagnostics.

My feeling is that there is a worst case scenario of replacing the sensor and wiring, reconnecting the wiring, and then performing a calibration. This should be a known cost that I should be told before moving forward. I am being asked to pay an hourly rate for troubleshooting with no cap or guarantee that they even solve the problem. Is this normal?

gbesq · Oct 11, 2022

Maybe take it to an independent garage that you trust for a second opinion and estimate? One thing is certain: regardless of whether or not the dealer is being straight with you, you will end up paying them more than anywhere else to diagnose and repair the problem.

BlackTalon · Oct 11, 2022

Prepay? That's a new one.

vbrad26 · Oct 11, 2022

Can't agree or disagree with the price they are quoting you but sounds like pretty standard practice to me.
I'd also want to know exactly what this $480 is covering. Yes, labor, but what exactly are they doing - how did they come up with $480?
There is a "book rate" for most jobs, meaning that yes, they do know how long a certain job should take, and you pay based on that.
But that is where "diagnosis" gets a little tricky. Since they are LOOKING for the problem, all they can do is charge you labor.
Labor is around $100/hr (usually a little more at dealerships) so it looks to me like they are charging you around 4 hours of labor.
Which seems a bit excessive. But maybe they are just overestimating? They'd probably never tell you if they figured it out in 30 min though.
I'd go for a second opinion probably. At least you always know what the dealer will take from you.
Or just live without the forward collision assist. I hate that crap on my wifes car lol.

Archer · Oct 11, 2022

BlackTalon
Prepay? That's a new one.

Yes, that's odd - I have never prepaid for any auto repair before.

TheGreekPhysique · Oct 11, 2022

BlackTalon
Prepay? That's a new one.

Next thing you know they will be asking you to enroll in some monthly subscription.

gbesq · Oct 11, 2022

vbrad26
Can't agree or disagree with the price they are quoting you but sounds like pretty standard practice to me.
I'd also want to know exactly what this $480 is covering. Yes, labor, but what exactly are they doing - how did they come up with $480?
There is a "book rate" for most jobs, meaning that yes, they do know how long a certain job should take, and you pay based on that.
But that is where "diagnosis" gets a little tricky. Since they are LOOKING for the problem, all they can do is charge you labor.
Labor is around $100/hr (usually a little more at dealerships) so it looks to me like they are charging you around 4 hours of labor.
Which seems a bit excessive. But maybe they are just overestimating? They'd probably never tell you if they figured it out in 30 min though.
I'd go for a second opinion probably. At least you always know what the dealer will take from you.
Or just live without the forward collision assist. I hate that crap on my wifes car lol.

I wouldn’t forgo the repair on the forward collision mitigation system as it is valuable technology. My car’s system has kept me from colliding with deer on two separate occasions including one that occurred on a foggy night - the system “saw” the deer before I did and had already started to bring the car to a stop. Pretty amazing stuff.

Bruce235 · Oct 11, 2022

Seems reasonable. They have established that there is no power to the sensor so need to find the fault. Once found it will be short time to fix and put the car back together. You have already paid the diagnostic so are unlikely to get a complete fix elsewhere.

janice&fred · Oct 11, 2022

Bruce235
They have established that there is no power

Says who? "Bad wire" could be any number of wires not necessarily the power supply.

Braindrain · Oct 11, 2022

I did have a friend, years ago, who had a similar problem with a Nissan SUV. Not the same system but the same problem of something going wrong that the dealer had no idea what was actually wrong. In the end, I think they tried to charge him $1500 (or something like that) in diagnostics, but was able to negotiate down that amount. But no, he never had to pre-pay.

I'm guessing they want you to pre-pay, knowing if you don't, you'll complain loudly and try to avoid most of that charge? (I would, for the record.)

gbesq · Oct 11, 2022

If they insist on the prepayment, use a credit card so that you can try disputing the charge later if you find it to be unreasonable.

bananapeanut · Oct 11, 2022

Braindrain
I did have a friend, years ago, who had a similar problem with a Nissan SUV. Not the same system but the same problem of something going wrong that the dealer had no idea what was actually wrong. In the end, I think they tried to charge him $1500 (or something like that) in diagnostics, but was able to negotiate down that amount. But no, he never had to pre-pay.

I'm guessing they want you to pre-pay, knowing if you don't, you'll complain loudly and try to avoid most of that charge? (I would, for the record.)

That's exactly why leasing is so popular. Nothing worse than having to deal with dealers and mechanics.

Foo2rama · Oct 11, 2022

kippyk
Brought in a 2017 Ford Fusion in for a malfunctioning "pre-collision detection sensor". I believe this system will automatically slam on the brakes if you are about to plow into another car. The auto-following cruise control system stills works. The dealer wanted $180 to perform a diagnostic. The money paid could be used for the cost of the eventual repair. I paid this. The report back is that there is a bad wire (they think), but they need to take more sections of the car apart to continue the diagnostics. They are asking me to pre-pay the labor (another $480) to continue the diagnostics.

My feeling is that there is a worst case scenario of replacing the sensor and wiring, reconnecting the wiring, and then performing a calibration. This should be a known cost that I should be told before moving forward. I am being asked to pay an hourly rate for troubleshooting with no cap or guarantee that they even solve the problem. Is this normal?

this should be covered under the extended warranty around safety equipment. It’s federally mandated and applies to all cars.

airbags and seatbelts.

X350 XJR · Oct 11, 2022

Take it from serial Jaguar owners, having a good brand specific independent mechanic is invaluable. Can't tell you how much we have saved over dealer service/repairs over the years.

bmpennington · Oct 11, 2022

kippyk
Brought in a 2017 Ford Fusion in for a malfunctioning "pre-collision detection sensor". I believe this system will automatically slam on the brakes if you are about to plow into another car. The auto-following cruise control system stills works. The dealer wanted $180 to perform a diagnostic. The money paid could be used for the cost of the eventual repair. I paid this. The report back is that there is a bad wire (they think), but they need to take more sections of the car apart to continue the diagnostics. They are asking me to pre-pay the labor (another $480) to continue the diagnostics.

My feeling is that there is a worst case scenario of replacing the sensor and wiring, reconnecting the wiring, and then performing a calibration. This should be a known cost that I should be told before moving forward. I am being asked to pay an hourly rate for troubleshooting with no cap or guarantee that they even solve the problem. Is this normal?

I had something similar happen but luckily they found out the electrical issue without too many hours of trouble shooting. I would definitely want a worst case scenario pricing.

Davidt · Oct 11, 2022

My mum took her little Corsa in under warranty earlier this year after the clutch failed.
Vauxhall said we can’t be certain it’s a warranty fault until we expose the clutch, by which time you’ll be into us for around £500-700 in labour. If it’s not a warranty repair we’ll have to charge you for the job and if you want the car putting back together for a second opinion that’ll cost as well.

Obvious scare mongering to try and encourage the customer to go elsewhere. Of course after I told my her to go ahead as they’re talking rubbish, it was a warranty repair.

vbrad26 · Oct 11, 2022

The Father
FORD must have a service facility memo out, "fυck the customer"

My youngest kid took his truck in for warranty problem on AC. 2022 truck 14,000 miles.

The service response was, "you will need to leave truck for 5 days so we can diagnose this is really a warranty problem"
WTF?
"You need to get your own rental while we diagnose." another WTF

Service could not reproduce the AC problem even though it was obvious when he brought it in.

AC compressor was freezing up (leak) but only after it ran for a while. So the service tech couldn't reproduce the AC problem driving around the block. Nothing wrong here the FORD service dept said.

Service wench said "bring it back if you experience the problem again"

Problem happened again; Son brought back at 4:30pm on a Friday and the service bitch made the mistake of saying "can you bring truck back when it is more convenient for us"

Son went ballistic of course, I think I heard him yelling at the poor dumb bitch from my house. So service manager and top tech came running out and diagnosed problem in two minutes. Well actually the service tech diagnosed problem. The asshole service manager told my son "you probably have the controls on wrong" Truck still running my kid said knock yourself out dumbass.

Anyway, FORD service did everything to escape obvious warranty coverage.

Sounds like you need to find a different Ford service department!
That's brutally bad.

vbrad26 · Oct 11, 2022

Davidt
My mum took her little Corsa in under warranty earlier this year after the clutch failed.
Vauxhall said we can’t be certain it’s a warranty fault until we expose the clutch, by which time you’ll be into us for around £500-700 in labour. If it’s not a warranty repair we’ll have to charge you for the job and if you want the car putting back together for a second opinion that’ll cost as well.

Obvious scare mongering to try and encourage the customer to go elsewhere. Of course after I told my her to go ahead as they’re talking rubbish, it was a warranty repair.

Why would they try to scare her to go elsewhere? Warranty claim or not the shop is still getting paid and making money...
And in most cases, clutch is not covered under warranty as it is considered a wear and tear item.
Sounds like they were just being upfront with you all.

Davidt · Oct 11, 2022

vbrad26
Why would they try to scare her to go elsewhere? Warranty claim or not the shop is still getting paid and making money...
And in most cases, clutch is not covered under warranty as it is considered a wear and tear item.
Sounds like they were just being upfront with you all.

I guess you’re right about them getting paid regardless but it certainly seemed to me they were been overly enthusiastic around the costs she would likely be liable for as they were adamant it wasn’t a warranty claim. I understand a clutch is a wear and tear item but not on a car that’s a year old with less than 5000 miles.

Cenzo · Oct 11, 2022

I know they don't make sense for everyone, but when I bought my last two Hondas new I also purchased an 8yr/120K Honda extended warranty. I just like the peace of mind for those next 5 years. The one for my 2015 Accord cost $1100. You can shop around and don't have to buy it from the dealer your purchased the car from. My dealer matched the online price. It's also transferable ($50) so if you sell your car before the warranty expires it's a nice selling point to the buyer.