Information and restoration advice about an old caliber 19

[bseclier]

Hello everyone,
I'm practicing watchmaking since a few month and I was looking for an omega caliber to work on. I found a very cheap (15€-17$) working "omega pocket watch" on the Internet :







I didn't know anything about the Omega caliber 19 until then. I gathered this information about my new movement (please, correct me if I'm wrong) :
- This is a caliber 19 lines B (the most common/cheap among the 19''' serie)
- According to the serial number into the case (1287343), this watch is from about 1895-1896
- There is no "omega" word, only the symbol on the movement because the brand Omega was found in 1903 based on this revolutionary movement
- There is quite a lot of older watchmaker's mark in the inside of the case but I'm unable to understand any of them
- The material of the cas is "gun blue" if my English word is correct (in french, we say "acier bruni"). The "M" graved on the movement is an import mark for Metal.

Can you tell me more about this specific watch or movement ?

Anyway, since I've learnt about the history of this movement, I felt in love with it and I'd like to restore it the best I can. Problem, I've never done a watch restoration... So I have some questions :
- What is the best way to restore his original case color ? I saw the "perma blue paste" for guns, could it be used here ? See this video of what it should look like.
- For the dial, what is the easiest way to restore it (at least, the hole at the bottom of the watch, the top will be more tricky I guess.
- For the "golden part" of the movement, is it still possible to clean it in order to obtain a shiny movement like here ? : https://urdelar.se/products/omega-19-cal-omega-19-lob?variant=32947186892885
- Is it easy to find other omega hands ? I saw that these above are called "Louis XV hands" but I find them ugly, I'll keep them but out of the watch.
- A last "historical" question : this movement is from late 1800, the Omega brand was found in 1903, so why is there the omega brand on the dial ? I didn't disassemble the movement to see the serial number of it but I'm pretty sure it will be the same as the one carved in the case.

As you saw, I'm quite new in this restoration process and I hope I will not damage this old lady, that's why I'm asking all these questions 😀

Thank you for reading me, I hove I wasn't boring. I really look forward to your reply.
Cheers

Edited: Jan 25, 2022

 

[Tire-comedon]

Hi,
I doubt the perma blue will give it back its original color. It was black (acier bruni), not blue (acier bleui).
I know no enamel dial restoration that is satisfactory. There are some white resins or paste which are sometimes used, but I find the result worse than untouching the dial.
For cleaning the watch parts and plates you can use an ultrasonic cleaner wit hthe appropriate solution.
You will find suitable hands on another donnor 19 lignes (could be more expa,sive than what you paid for this watch).
The caliber serial will be different from the case serial number. That's normal.

 

[sleepyastronaut]

Hello, and welcome to the forum!


I believe the Omega model from Brandt inspired the Omega brand name. The Omega name on the dial is likely the model name, not the brand. Some interesting info here: https://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/omega.php#

Check out the Pink Pages for movement info:

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&Omega_19

Edited: Jan 25, 2022

 

[nicks]

That’s a nice find. I’m among the many who would say that restoring an enamel dial is usually completely unsuccessful.

You’ve done a lot of good research and you have come to the right place for more information. Best of luck with this project.

 

[DON]

If your located in the US. I would look for an American brand model to work on. Parts if needed will be easier to find and less expensive

DON

 

[bseclier]

Hello everyone, thanks for all your answer. It seems that I don't have a lot of solution in order to get this watch as beautiful as it was 😀

@Tire-comedon : I didn't know "bruni" and "bleui" was 2 different methods/colors, I thought it was 2 names for the same result. No "perma gun blue" for me then...
I've bought and ultrasonic cleaner but didn't use yet. Depending of the solution used, can it make the movement shiny again ?

@sleepyastronaut : This page was the first I read during my research, indeed. I thought like you, that maybe the name on the dial was the caliber one, not the brand one (yet). Thank you for the confirmation.

@nicks : I saw a guy on Youtube (this video) who use a powder to repair the dial. Could it be a good solution ? What is this powder ?

@DON : I'm from France, but I thing it is the same, I'll look for the dimensions of dials and try to find "omega like" dials.

 

[sleepyastronaut]

bseclier

@nicks : I saw a guy on Youtube (this video) who use a powder to repair the dial. Could it be a good solution ? What is this powder ?

This YouTuber is a hack, don't follow his lead. Notice his handling of the dial with what appear to be steel plyers. In his 1860's pocket watch restoration video, he glues a cap jewel in place. This seems wrong.

I believe the repair is a porcelain enamel process, also referred to as vitreous enamel, using powdered enamel.

 

[bseclier]

Yes, I saw that this youtuber was a little careless, at least 😀

 

[Archer]

sleepyastronaut

This YouTuber is a hack, don't follow his lead. Notice his handling of the dial with what appear to be steel plyers. In his 1860's pocket watch restoration video, he glues a cap jewel in place. This seems wrong.

I believe the repair is a porcelain enamel process, also referred to as vitreous enamel, using powdered enamel.

Well I watched a bit of that. Yes, hack is exactly how I would describe that work, and the handling of the dial was cringe worthy. For anyone who watches that, the way he oils the jewels (by apparently smearing oil all over the underside of each jewel) is not the proper way. I don't think I saw him once use the correct screwdriver for any screw that he touched. He oils things that shouldn't be oiled, so the screw for the swan's neck regulator. And of course, bare fingers touching the "cleaned" movement...

Like a lot of these "restoration" videos I've seen, they focus more on doing cosmetic fixes that servicing the movement properly. From a movement servicing perspective, this guy doesn't have a clue what he's doing...

 

[nicks]

I thought the dial restoration in the video was good, but I can only guess how long it would last. In the comments section, he mentions a brand of “permanent” marker. I’m doubtful.

To the OP, although the dial in the video appeared to turn out well, the vast majority do not, and so the usual (good) advice is to leave these dials alone. Personally, I’d also keep the hands. This watch was intended as a dress watch, with those fancy hands were and are part of what’s attractive about it.

 

[PlainVanilla]

Back in the day, each part of a movement had to be adjusted to fit in. Innovations in machinery led "Louis Brandt & Frère" - which was the name of the brand back then - to create that 19 lines movement in 1894. It was the very first watch movement that had strictly identical mass produced parts, which means that if a part in a movement needed to be replaced, you could just order one and fit it in the movement without bothering adjusting it. They called that 19 lines caliber "Omega".

Louis Brandt & Frère won the Grand Prix in the Universal Exhibition in Paris in 1900 for that innovation, and customers going to boutiques asking for the "Omega" watch led them to rename their brand.

 

[Caliber561]

Looks like Omega has their own method of restoring porcelain dials:

It's hard to tell how effective it is without being able to evaluate the result in person though.

 

[bseclier]

Thank you for all your comments. It seems so easy on the omega video 😀
They seem to use the "same powder" as our favorite youtuber mention above. I'll try to look after this kind of powder (and training dials). I'm afraid to loose the shiny effect though.