Let me suggest that your Tradition diver is, perhaps a product of Heuer-Leonidas. Heuer acquired Leonidas in the early 1960s. Heuer supplied watches to Sears...best known for supplying chronographs, I believe. I have read that when Heuer made the decision to focus on chronographs in the early-mid 1960s it sold a lot of non-chronograph inventory, as well as chronographs, to various retailers to be marketed as their house brand -- e.g., Zales/Baylor.

Attached are a couple of photos of of a Leonidas diver from around the period of your watch and its acquisition by Heuer. Note that the Leonidas dial is essentially identical to your Tradition -- e.g., hour and minute markers, and the font used for numerals. The movement used in the Leonidas is a twenty-five jewels AS 1700, which looks very similar to the twenty-five jewels AS used powering your Tradition. The Tradition uses a more conventional case and an external rather than internal rotating bezel -- which might have been a cost concession, given Sears' target market.

Just a thought.....

 

Now that is some cool sleuthing! I didnt even think about a Leonidas/ Heuer connection which is funny considering I have 2 pre- Heuer Leonidas’. But it is true, they were an OEM supplier and were dumping 3-handed inventory around this time as they were focusing on chronos, and as far as I have seen- Leo/Heuer used off the shelf movements (like the Landerons in their early chronos) so this would be plausible.

The compressor case on mine is also a little more unusual than a standard screw-back which is what has made me pursue the idea that this watch is a little out of the norm for the later Tradition stuff.

 

You might also nose around Orvin. I believe Sears was the sole US importer of Orvin, and that Orvin might have manufactured some house brands for Sears. Most Orvin dive watches I have seen have date windows. That said, many have dials very similar to your Tradition -- i.e., tapered hour and minute markers, similar font used for numerals.

 

Just looked up some of the Orvin’s- yup, see the resemblance.

 

I have have to say - these are some muddy waters.

Dial print similarities aside, what would make this watch Leonidas if nothing else shared with a watch in their line? I'm not even targeting this discussion specifically, this is a general question I've wondered for other DNA watches that people always attribute to a more famous maker. "It has the same bezel that Brand-X used!! It must have been entirely made by Brand-X!!" Or the more likely scenario - everyone had access to similar parts suppliers.

Yes, there is a weird low grade Easy Rider Chronograph that Sears sold and people say it's a Heuer, and yes, there are some other very rare 1:1 rebranded watches that actually are duplicates minus the dial brand, but I think that is where the line ends. As we've already seen, Sears was branding watches from any company salesman that walked in their door.

I'm not attacking this very nice watch personally, I just don't want someone to stumble on this thread in the future and add some attributions to a watch they're selling to bump up the value because they "read it on the internet". That's how the whole Breitling/Sicura bridge was made.

Also, you keep calling it a compressor watch, I still don't think this is an EPSA Compressor case. I have never seen them with a notch back. Happy to be proven wrong.

 

well i'm reading this now on the internet as well. no one here is making definitive claims about the watch. the OP isn't offering it for sale so there's no ominous danger with someone stumbling onto this thread. people are merely making guesses and brainstorming. it's just a fun discussion on an interesting catch in very fine condition.

 

Sorry, That's why I said at the end that I wasn't attacking this watch specifically, It should have read as more of a broad question. Obviously if I owned this and Sears had a "tradition" of rebranded watches - I'd want to find out the maker too!

I think there are some times where it's just what it is. Possibly built for them, maybe it shares parts from multiple similar watches, but it's not from one specific maker.

Here's an example of why I'm on the fence with this stuff:

Look at the Rado Caption cook MK1 and the 2nd generation Croton Depthmaster. They have the same case, same stadium bezel, similar dial details. But I'm going to bet Rado didn't make the Croton and Croton didn't make the Rado. They just had lunch with the same sales team.

 

I think we are all on the same page here- i find it fun detective work to try and research or gather information from the collective knowledge on some of the obscure or “lesser” brands like these to see if there is DNA shared with others.

Some of the other no-name divers I have picked up have identical cases, identical dials, identical movements, but different hand styles and names on the dial. Obviously there were Swiss & French companies asembling these and branding the dials through contracts with designers/stores- I am curious who these companies were and if there are sales catalogs from these companies so we can see that this Whoozewhat diver was made by xxxx company from the variety of part combo’s they offered in their 1968 product catalog.

Someone else above pointed out the case was of the compressor style (bayonet mount back, not screw back). I noted the back doesn’t say EPSA, but other brands made compressor style cases as well (including Tissot) despite not being an EPSA (not sure If they trademarked the name “compressor or super conpressor).

I have no plans on immediately running out and posting this this thing for sale as a newly discovered Heuer variant- it would be impossible to make a claim like that unless there is definitive documentation, like original purchase orders from Sears with Heuer/Leo as the supplier (and I would challenge anyone with a Tradition chrono not marked on the case or movement with the Heuer name to provide such documentation, otherwise it’s just a generic chronograph) . As mentioned above, Sears was the sole US distributor for Orvin watches, so I could see it being an upscaled Orvin made to a slightly higher standard on spec for Sears to justify a higher price tag and the “ De Luxe” status on the dial. The only way to “prove” anything would be to get a Sears catalog from c. 1965 with this watch listed- then track down the catalog number and cross reference it against Sears archives to see from whom they sourced the watches. Maybe a project for my retirement in 25 years. Until then I will enjoy the watch and continue to speculate on why I have never seen another like it.

 

That is a standard bayonet case back, but not a compressor. I don't see the floating ring that is the key element of the compressor patent, which allows the case-back to move and compress the seal under hydrostatic pressure. Under high pressure, that case-back will flex, just like any rigidly attached case-back.

 

that's a very nice early example you have pictured. Rado and Seiko are everywhere in the Philippine islands but most of the captain cooks we came across were the later versions with dual crowns. still vintage but later.

 

I hope you snagged a few! I read that the Orient was Rado’s biggest market back in the 60’s/70’s
so that makes sense.

 

I see that now that you mention it. Just a standard 666 rating stainless case

 

Watch came in today- it’s a really cool piece. I beleive it is an aluminum bezel, dial appears very clean, there is some funk under the crystal and on the inner silver retaining ring- should clean off well. Strap is the real deal swiss Tropic and not a Chinese knock-off and appears to have little wear and is surprisingly comfortable (never been a fan of rubber straps). It’s keeping time within a few seconds since setting it this afternoon so that’s a good sign. It does make a funny click while manually winding it- not audible but you feel it after a couple rotations- like when you have a broken mainspring on a manual wind watch- May be nothing, may be a problem with the winding pinion (which was an issue in my first Zodiac l), but it’s holding its charge and keeping time so can’t ask for much more from an unknown service history.
Some crappy wrist shots to follow - it’s now at my handy watch whisper’s (not a watchmaker but brilliant with OCD restoration work) who has cosmetically restored several others of mine to supreme glory- so will post after shots when he’s done.

 

@JwRosenthal, this video of the beginnings of Sears as a watch seller might be interesting

 

Very cool! If Hondinkee has put that out this week, every Sears watch would be worth 10x what it was last week.

 

very nice.

i had to stop buying things like this as i have so many alike but not alike pieces like it

i'm a sucker for cool skin diver esque in the 2-6 hundo range..they're just too easy to stockpile

got this to satisfy my doxa sub itch. slightly smaller and equal if not better

condition is huge on these vintage divers.

 

Very nice. It’s even the de luxe version. I dig the looks of the case. By the pics you give doesn’t look funky at all so should clean up very nicely

 

I agree- they are cool and great bang for the buck. Ones that have decent Swiss movements, stainless cases and have that vintage cool factor are bargains compared to some of the micro-brands or even big brands out there trying to do vintage styled watches....just get the real thing!

 

Thought I would just update- brought the Tradition to my guy for a look-over. Said it had been recently serviced, was very clean, seals were all fresh including the double sealed crown. It was running at 16/s and he adjusted it to within 3 sec. polished the crystal and cleaned out some of the funk under the crystal. his comment- this is a very well made watch.

Feel like a got a nice deal on this one

 

amazing piece.

it seems like it's harder to find no date models in the vintage world w/o emptying the wallet more so

could this scratch the omega trilogy rail/seamaster itch?