The question mark says it: I'm not sure what it is. Anyone who knows more? This are the best pics I have for the moment. Serial 3.2m so 1916 movement. Case: 42mm. Case is unmarked. Movement: 15.28.

 

I've seen an Omega from the same period in a very similar case. The Longines archival department is very responsive and I am sure that you will be able to get some more information if you provide them with the serial number.

 

Nicked from MWR (and from Knirim):

 

All of this warrants extreme caution. I'd be quite worried about some ukrainian magic.
Several red flags: hands look new, subdial suspicious in several respects...
Non marked case with a 1916 movement? Those so called "pattern" watches are usually dated circa 1928 IIRC....
In any event you definitely should query the Longines archives before you pull the trigger.
And I was going to suggest, post on MWR.
Several knowledgeable members there about those.
@LarryG here would know too.
Best regards, S

 

I concur with- and defer to- @Syrte, this one cries Ukraine.

 

So this is what Longines had to say:
'The original serial number [edited] identifies a wristwatch in metal. It is fitted with a Longines manually wound mechanical movement, caliber 15.26. It was invoiced on 13 April 1916 to the company Schwob, which was at that time our agent for Russia.'

Anyone a clue whether this confirms my watch?

 

Extract doesn't confirm for me the case, dial, or crown were produced by Longines or licenced distributor. Doesn't mean the watch is fake either, just not what I would expect from Longines styling and design of that period.

 

Beyond the dial and crown being completely off, this piece of information is not reassuring. This corresponds to the production period for swivel lug metal/silver Longines with enamel dials sold in Russia. I have 2 that bracket your serial number, invoiced in September 1917 and March 1915, both to Schwob. The movement was most likely born in such an oversize swivel watch.

 

OK so the verdict is a Franken with original movement? What to do? Anyone an idea whether the movement might be of interest for somebody?

 

I found picture of correct looking Longines "Avigation" watch from 1911 is what the owner thinks. Yours is really off the mark. Strong evidence yours not likely made by Longines. Model name is interesting Aviation + Navigation = Avigation.



And the heritage version

 

@Mark020, I’m sorry to say but the extract of archive is not entirely useful. Basically it’s telling you the case is in metal. Is that true?
But the critical question is, what do the markings say on the inside case back? is it a Longines case ? We need to see a picture to determine that.
That will be the decisive factor and the extract you have does not say anything about that, it’s only giving you the date of
the movement.

 

Case is non marked...

 

Not even numbers marked?
If none it doesn’t seem like good news, but again hard to say without a picture.

The most definite assessment would require sending to Saint-Imier for a certificate of authenticity.

Is the watch not returnable, did you get any guarantees of any sort?

 

No numbers. I asked the seller for a refund. Just found out that he is a watchmaker so I assume he knew what he was selling...

 

Definitely the best option.

 

No luck so far.

 

I'm having difficulties finding a photo of the "Czech Army" we'll call it Avigation watch. Apparently, one is in the Longines Museum and I expect it will look like the one I posted, which looks like it is a photo from maybe a private collection. I have seen correspondence from Longines about the Czech Army watch. Unfortunately, all the images seem to be in Photobucket so all the links I tried tracing down end up with Photobucket ransomeware image so no one can see what they look like. Another keyword that seems to help is "Czech Army Big Crown" that is what the heritage museum was calling it in their email responses. No matter how much I think I know something about a watch, there's a legit watch out there that will prove me wrong. The one thing I have learned is that the watch ordered for the Czech Army seems to be a rarely seen beast. I have yet to uncover if there is anything to do with the so called German 1928 Pattern watches, which I don't think anyone has shown documentation that such a spec existed.

Your watch does seem to not be consistent with information we have found so far. Hopefully you can get a refund. I think it will be very difficult to put together the information to understand how much of the watch is genuine. I've been looking at a few Eastern Block Longines and can't seem to find definitive information.

The converse of this though is that in my personal experience, I've come across several watches that I was able to successfully prove the prevailing understandings for those watches was wrong after months of personal research and making lots of contacts. It the watch looks untampered to you, you might serious consider doing some tracing back of a watch. Finding a better tested theory can be very satisfying. (ie. Elgin Canteen, Auricoste 1980 13e RDP, Longines Seikosha Suirobu, working on Longines C.O.S.D. to name a few)

 

Ask Longines if they have any mention about the color of the dial and the case type (was the movement issued with a white enamel dial and does the metal case have swivel lugs)?

 

No they did not

 

Matt Hanson aka Vintagelongines on Instagram has seen some of the museum’s more rare watches and wrote about some of them so maybe he has pictures of that Czech flieger?