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Dan S
·Yes, every couple of months somebody foolishly uses the term ... and is mercilessly mocked. 😀
I'm going to ban the word "Calatrava" from the Longines Forum.
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dodo44
·At the risk of being mocked, I find the word Calatrava quite practical. It avoids long periphrases such as "I have a beautiful restrained 3-hand time-only dress watch with a sleek and elegant profile".
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CaptainWinsor
·98% of what people refer to as Art Deco is in fact not deco in any sense.
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Syrte
·A very interesting article on the history of the Calatrava published in the watch webzine called "Monochrome" says the Calatrava design was in fact inspired from Bauhaus?
We have two classic OF threads colliding here....
https://monochrome-watches.com/hist...alatrava-part-1-reference-96/#image-gallery-1
I'd like to see some documentary evidence, kind of getting tired of so called watch knowledge being unsourced hearsay.
Sketch below, provided by the Patek Philippe Museum to the author of the article. But that doesn't prove the designer had Bauhaus specifically in mind when he drew that up.
We have two classic OF threads colliding here....
https://monochrome-watches.com/hist...alatrava-part-1-reference-96/#image-gallery-1
I'd like to see some documentary evidence, kind of getting tired of so called watch knowledge being unsourced hearsay.
Sketch below, provided by the Patek Philippe Museum to the author of the article. But that doesn't prove the designer had Bauhaus specifically in mind when he drew that up.
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STANDY
··schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collectorCalatrava was not a design of a watch but was the cross that PP used in decorations on movements and crowns and was trademarked 50-60 years before the so called line of watches was released.
And
Tom Mulraney has only a opinion that the design of the so called Calatrava was Bauhaus 😗
The design was spawned by a company designer looking to make a watch without bells and whistles to sell during the Great Depression in the 1930s as the inclination for the wealthy of the time was not to display wealth.
The romance of history is so often skewed from the cold hard facts by writers
As you know @Syrte i have linked several books over the years on th history of watches and horological significance that I have read.
The above is only my opinion and I am not going to ever make money as a brand ambassador for any watch company 😉
And
Tom Mulraney has only a opinion that the design of the so called Calatrava was Bauhaus 😗
The design was spawned by a company designer looking to make a watch without bells and whistles to sell during the Great Depression in the 1930s as the inclination for the wealthy of the time was not to display wealth.
The romance of history is so often skewed from the cold hard facts by writers
As you know @Syrte i have linked several books over the years on th history of watches and horological significance that I have read.
The above is only my opinion and I am not going to ever make money as a brand ambassador for any watch company 😉
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Syrte
·Calatrava was not a design of a watch but was the cross that PP used in decorations on movements and crowns and was trademarked 50-60 years before the so called line of watches was released.
And
Tom Mulraney has only a opinion that the design of the so called Calatrava was Bauhaus 😗
The design was spawned by a company designer looking to make a watch without bells and whistles to sell during the Great Depression in the 1930s as the inclination for the wealthy of the time was not to display wealth.
The romance of history is so often skewed from the cold hard facts by writers
As you know @Syrte i have linked several books over the years on th history of watches and horological significance that I have read.
The above is only my opinion and I am not going to ever make money as a brand ambassador for any watch company 😉
Thanks for refreshing our recollection— somehow I had the « BS » alarm bells going off when I read that assertion about Bauhaus...
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Peemacgee
·interesting set of articles @Syrte, thank you for posting the link
my interest is always piqued when someone attributes design styles without evidence - and I share your caution if it isn't backed up by documented evidence.
However, the writings do provide a concise oversight of the 'Calatrava', which has made me appreciate these PPs significantly more than before.
As for the design sketch above, there are a couple of 'worrying' aspects, given that it is meant to be the progenitor of the 'form follows function' Calatrava watch-case style.
the sketch intimates the inclusion of the 'Clous de Paris' guilloche bezel, which presents two issues IMHO:
1.from the article, the hobnail bezel wasn't actually produced until 1973 - and on another (associated) case style
2. if Penney always intended for there to be a guilloche bezel on the original design, then it certainly wasn't a form follows function design (unless he intended it to rotate for some reason...😒)
as it happens, I personally think that the "most coveted of them all" hobnail bezel is an abominable aberration on an otherwise stunningly beautiful (and simple) design concept
(I'm with Louis Sullivan that "form should ever follow function - that is the law"😀)
my interest is always piqued when someone attributes design styles without evidence - and I share your caution if it isn't backed up by documented evidence.
However, the writings do provide a concise oversight of the 'Calatrava', which has made me appreciate these PPs significantly more than before.
As for the design sketch above, there are a couple of 'worrying' aspects, given that it is meant to be the progenitor of the 'form follows function' Calatrava watch-case style.
the sketch intimates the inclusion of the 'Clous de Paris' guilloche bezel, which presents two issues IMHO:
1.from the article, the hobnail bezel wasn't actually produced until 1973 - and on another (associated) case style
2. if Penney always intended for there to be a guilloche bezel on the original design, then it certainly wasn't a form follows function design (unless he intended it to rotate for some reason...😒)
as it happens, I personally think that the "most coveted of them all" hobnail bezel is an abominable aberration on an otherwise stunningly beautiful (and simple) design concept
(I'm with Louis Sullivan that "form should ever follow function - that is the law"😀)
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Fialetti
·A very interesting article on the history of the Calatrava published in the watch webzine called "Monochrome" says the Calatrava design was in fact inspired from Bauhaus?
We have two classic OF threads colliding here....
https://monochrome-watches.com/hist...alatrava-part-1-reference-96/#image-gallery-1
I'd like to see some documentary evidence, kind of getting tired of so called watch knowledge being unsourced hearsay.
Sketch below, provided by the Patek Philippe Museum to the author of the article. But that doesn't prove the designer had Bauhaus specifically in mind when he drew that up.
The only David Penney I can find evidence of online is a well-respected horologist and watch illustrator (he did the illustrations for George Daniels). He was born about 1950. So unless this drawing is by another David Penney from the 1930s who just happens to draw like a graphic artist in the 1980s, I would say that this is in not a design sketch but an illustration of an existing watch (and not the one it's pictured beside either), and that the article is just a more than usually confused/credulous iteration of Patek's vaguely-worded claim that the Calatrava is 'inspired by Bauhaus principles'.
There IS a book on Patek history by Nicolas Foulkes entitled 'Patek: the authorised biography'. But given its title, and the importance of the Bauhaus link to Patek's marketing, I doubt you would find much to contradict the company line.
It's a shame, because the original Calatrava IS a great design, and it would be very interesting, as well an act of historical justice, to know who actually designed it.
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JimInOz
··Melbourne AustraliaA pity Dennis isn't around to see this enlightening update. I just saw on line a Laurent Ferrier watch which is clearly a 1940s style, "calatrava" style watch -- called "galette tourbillon" (outfitted with a so called "scientific" dial. Why that name would be legit, by the way, I have no idea-- were they actually used for science?).
"Galette" in French is a flat cake which sometimes is also synonymous to "crepe".
Clearly Laurent Ferrier was not aware he should call those watches "baklava", but I find his inspiration is a good one and would accordingly adopt the moniker "galette" or "crepe" for those flat watches.
Edit/ add/ as I looked for a picture to post I found my initial online source was mistaken, the Laurent Ferrier watch is actually called "Gallet" -- which is a much more decorous appellation.(It also contains the notion of flatness but refers more to a flat pebble and not to a cake.)
Ah yes, Galettes, I remember them well 😁.
It was a beautiful Summer morning, consuming galettes and a nicely chilled local white wine in the sunshine, Pèrouges, Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes Region, France.
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Syrte
·interesting set of articles @Syrte, thank you for posting the link
my interest is always piqued when someone attributes design styles without evidence - and I share your caution if it isn't backed up by documented evidence.
However, the writings do provide a concise oversight of the 'Calatrava', which has made me appreciate these PPs significantly more than before.
As for the design sketch above, there are a couple of 'worrying' aspects, given that it is meant to be the progenitor of the 'form follows function' Calatrava watch-case style.
the sketch intimates the inclusion of the 'Clous de Paris' guilloche bezel, which presents two issues IMHO:
1.from the article, the hobnail bezel wasn't actually produced until 1973 - and on another (associated) case style
2. if Penney always intended for there to be a guilloche bezel on the original design, then it certainly wasn't a form follows function design (unless he intended it to rotate for some reason...😒)
as it happens, I personally think that the "most coveted of them all" hobnail bezel is an abominable aberration on an otherwise stunningly beautiful (and simple) design concept
(I'm with Louis Sullivan that "form should ever follow function - that is the law"😀)
Agreed on the hobnail bezel— and even with a flat bezel, the fact that there are faceted indexes and hands denotes a decorative effort which is at odds with the functionalist / minimalist credo of Bauhaus. The watch designs usually identified as such have the thinnest and most linear numerals, indexes and hands, and they have no bezel at all. They are pure dial and markings.
Thanks for the sleuthing effort @Fialetti and for the book recommendation.
Edited:
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Syrte
·Well, a pal from another forum found a press release in which Patek themselves link the Calatrava design with Bauhaus. Now the question is whether they're reinterpreting their own history.
https://static.patek.com/pdf/pressreleases/en/2006_PatekPhilippe_Ref_5119.pdf
https://static.patek.com/pdf/pressreleases/en/2006_PatekPhilippe_Ref_5119.pdf
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Fialetti
·I think that 'inspired by the Bauhaus principle' is a (perhaps deliberately) vague formulation. It's a statement of opinion rather than a verifiable fact, and it doesn't even refer to the actual historical Bauhaus, just to a 'principle' that is left undefined.
The date is noteworthy. Are there references to a Patek/Bauhaus link earlier than 2006, or might this be the point of origin for this very widespread assertion?
The date is noteworthy. Are there references to a Patek/Bauhaus link earlier than 2006, or might this be the point of origin for this very widespread assertion?
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Syrte
·What a coincidence! I just picked up this nice piece of Calatrava from the Greek place on the corner. Really delicious! They put orange zest in it.
In Istanbul Under Lockdown, Baklava Makers Are Essential Workers
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/21/...coronavirus.html?referringSource=articleShare
In Istanbul Under Lockdown, Baklava Makers Are Essential Workers
A strict weekend curfew quiets the city’s joyous commotion, but offers up new moments of breathtaking beauty, both spiritual and natural. And essential sweets are still delivered
Aka this thread needed a bump.
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hejsam
·As mentioned before, I have used the "Calatrava" word because its esier to describe a casedesign I link to that word.
Elegant 3-piece case, flat casesides and "curved" lugs just as in the original Calatrava model from Patek the 96.
Patek 96:
Models from other manufactures which I would have no problem in calling "Calatrava" design:
Elegant 3-piece case, flat casesides and "curved" lugs just as in the original Calatrava model from Patek the 96.
Patek 96:
Models from other manufactures which I would have no problem in calling "Calatrava" design:
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Syrte
·As mentioned before, I have used the "Calatrava" word because its esier to describe a casedesign I link to that word.
Elegant 3-piece case, flat casesides and "curved" lugs just as in the original Calatrava model from Patek the 96.
Patek 96:
Models from other manufactures which I would have no problem in calling "Calatrava" design:
beautiful Seamasters 👍
The debate’s kind of old news though.
While baklava is the topic of the day.
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Syrte
·
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ahsposo
··Most fun screen name at ΩFThat is not a 1949 watch.
Did I read it wrong? Or is the wrong watch pictured?
Did I read it wrong? Or is the wrong watch pictured?