Community Stories

I think I found a 13ZN in Great Grandad's bag of watches and I need some advice please

C
Posts
12
Likes
14
Hello everyone,
first of all, I need to say thank you as I have gained lots of invaluable info on Longines watches from your posts and it has led me to ask for your advice. A few years ago my Dad gave me a bag of watches which my Great Grandfather acquired from a pilot during WW2 (at the battle of Anzio in January 1944 before he was injured) according to family tales. He had stored them in a bag with his medals since the end of the war so are in unrestored condition as far as I know. My Dad told me to have the watches repaired and sell them but I never got around to it. He recently died so I want to finish the task he gave me and the Longines watch seems a good place to start.
Anyway, I emailed Longines and they told me I have a Tre Taache 1943 13ZN (ref 4974). They have sent me an extract and offered to restore it for me as the winder is missing; but after reading posts on this forum I am not sure this is the best idea so I am hoping someone on here can give me some advice and then I can decide what to do. I have considered asking the Auction houses for a valuation and advice about repairing it but I am not sure about this either. I am adding a couple of photos to show you the watch. Hoping someone can help. Thank you. [
Edited:
 
TexOmega
Posts
8,485
Likes
60,617
Hmmmmm, is that a watch?




Please post upclose, hiRez pictures in natural light so we can assist you.



Welcome to the Forum
 
cristos71
Posts
7,901
Likes
35,852
Wow, that's a fantastic war story and an equally impressive watch. I can't help you with any advice regarding it unfortunately but many here will likely be along shortly.

What else was in the bag?
 
Dan S
Posts
24,250
Likes
53,997
If that is water damage I'm seeing on the dial, I'm not sure a major auction house will want it. But the watch still has value.
 
DirtyDozen12
Posts
2,820
Likes
4,924
If you can post a better photo of the front of the watch, that would help us to assess the originality of the dial and hands.

Right off the bat, it must be stated that ref. 4974 is one of the most sought-after Longines references. The design of the case, with its round pushers and screw-in back, make it a relatively early attempt at a waterproof chronograph. The stepped bezel and large size are also desirable. Assuming that the dial is worn but original, a correct set of hands, crown, and movement restoration would make this watch worth north of $30K USD, and maybe a lot more. Below is an example with an original (not refinished) dial, correct hands (barring the chronograph second hand), and a correct crown.

At this point, it is probably worth speaking with Longines' restoration department to see if they have the correct parts (crown, hands, movement parts) to service the watch. Sending the watch to Longines will be expensive but probably your best bet to acquire the correct parts. Also worth emphasizing is that the originality and condition of the dial is of the utmost importance to collectors/for value. So, it would be imperative to instruct Longines to not touch the dial, which they should comply with.

Looking forward to seeing more. Thanks for posting it here.

upload_2022-2-22_14-41-11.png upload_2022-2-22_14-41-59.png

https://www.vwcweb.com/EN/Scheda/18...acche-quot-13zn-fly-back-chronograph-ref-4974
 
C
Posts
12
Likes
14
TexOmega TexOmega
Hmmmmm, is that a watch?




Please post upclose, hiRez pictures in natural light so we can assist you.



Welcome to the Forum
Thank you! I have uploaded more images.
 
Dan S
Posts
24,250
Likes
53,997
Well, the dial is in rough shape, but there is enough remaining to preserve IMO. Needs matching hands obviously, but that may not be impossible.
 
C
Posts
12
Likes
14
cristos71 cristos71
Wow, that's a fantastic war story and an equally impressive watch. I can't help you with any advice regarding it unfortunately but many here will likely be along shortly.

What else was in the bag?
Thank you, that is really kind of you to say. All of his medals were in there still in the box with the card from the MOD. I am still trying to work out if he was injured or captured at Anzio as the record has both He fought in WW1 too so he had kept those medals in there too. He never spoke about it so the family only has snippets of information.
Edited:
 
C
Posts
12
Likes
14
Dan S Dan S
Well, the dial is in rough shape, but there is enough remaining to preserve IMO. Needs matching hands obviously, but that may not be impossible.
Thank you for taking the time to reply. I suspect the dial looks worse on my image as most of the marks are on the cover as far as I can tell. Are the hands not original? I thought they must be as (as far as I know) it has been hidden away close to 80 years and must have been quite new when he acquired it but I guess I could be wrong.
 
TexOmega
Posts
8,485
Likes
60,617
Nice heirloom !!

Bummer about the water/moisture/environmental damage to the dial, I expect those are not easily found or cheaply procured.

I'd find a WM versed in vintage chronographs and just have it serviced and add a crown, then wear it gently, and pass it on when the time comes with as much family history about it that you can document and pass that too.


However, it is amazing what unlimited funds and time can do to a watch. Keep all original parts if you choose this path!
 
Dan S
Posts
24,250
Likes
53,997
If you have better photos, post them, but I'm generally able to recognize dial damage when I see it. Wear, mold, scratches, etc. There's no point trying to make excuses for your watch, we know what we're looking at. Just sit back and appreciate the complimentary evaluation and advice you are receiving. The hands don't match with each other, so they are clearly not original.
Edited:
 
C
Posts
12
Likes
14
Thank you for your advice. I am definitely going to have it looked at as I am fascinated to know if it still works! I have tried to find out who might have bought the watch but the agent is no longer in business so I hit a brick wall.
 
Walrus
Posts
10,765
Likes
52,856
I like the looks of it and it’s a great heirloom I’m easy to please though
 
C
Posts
12
Likes
14
Dan S Dan S
If you have better photos, post them, but I'm generally able to recognize dial damage when I see it. Lots of missing printing around the outside ring, scratches, etc. There's no point trying to make excuses for your watch, we know what we're looking at. Just sit back and appreciate the complimentary evaluation and advice you are receiving. The hands don't match with each other, so they are clearly not original.
I am sure you have much more knowledge than I do which is why I plucked up the courage to post here and I didn't mean to offend you. I promise I wasn't making excuses for the watch as I have no idea what I am looking at. I just wanted to try to explain the muddy marks on the cover. I envisaged water damage as condensation but I now know you mean the little dots? I absolutely do appreciate the advice I am getting from you and everyone else. It is helping me decide to have the watch restored properly. I guess if the hands are not original there is more to the story than I thought so thank you for pointing that out to me too.
Edited:
 
C
Posts
12
Likes
14
Walrus Walrus
I like the looks of it and it’s a great heirloom I’m easy to please though
Thank you Walrus. I think it is a lovely watch too but it especially blows me away to think a pilot might have used it for navigation...
 
DaveK
Posts
5,082
Likes
15,701
C Curiouscat
…A few years ago my Dad gave me a bag of watches which my Great Grandfather acquired from a pilot during WW2 (at the battle of Anzio in January 1944 before he was injured) according to family tales...

My late father in law fought in Anzio as part of the First Special Services Force (Devil’s Brigade).
 
C
Posts
12
Likes
14
I think I have seen a film about the Devil's Brigade? That is a proud heritage you have. They were very brave men. My Great Grandfather was in a Royal Artillery maritime regiment in WW2 and fought at Anzio too. I read about the battle and it sounds long and brutal. I wish the watch could talk as I am sure it would have a tale or two to tell.
 
DirtyDozen12
Posts
2,820
Likes
4,924
Thanks for posting additional photos.

Fortunately, the dial is original. It does appear to be quite worn, but it could be worse.

As for the hands, all but one are correct/salvageable. The one that looks like an arrow (chronograph minute hand) is correct. The plume-style hour/minute hands are incorrect, as is the red chronograph second hand with an oblong counterpoise (should be circular). It is difficult to tell whether or not the running second hand is correct, but it looks to be broken/missing its counterpoise either way.

Other things worth mentioning are that the case appears to retain its original finishing. The tops of the lugs have linear brush marks and the bezel is polished on the top level and brushed on the lower level. It is important that the case is not polished so that these finishes remain as is.

Also, the chronograph pushers appear to be original. I doubt replacements exist so retaining/not damaging these is important.

Regarding the movement, it looks as though the minute recording jumper (spring by the serial number) might be broken. Also, the movements on these watches are usually anchored to the case by a special piece that is missing on this example.

I am under the impression that Longines has some new-old-stock 13ZN crowns, but it will be interesting to know if they have the hands and movement parts that you are missing.
 
C
Posts
12
Likes
14
Dirty Dozen, thank you very much for such detailed advice. I feel like I should buy you a beer as you’ve certainly given me the knowledge about what to preserve and what to replace. I was worried I would destroy the character of it and now I feel a little more informed. You’ve also convinced me to send it to Longines so I’ll keep you posted on what they are able to do with it. I just wish I knew who it belonged to back then. Thanks again!
 
Dan S
Posts
24,250
Likes
53,997
A Longines restoration will cost you many thousands of dollars/euros/pounds and will take a LONG time, and they will probably attempt to up-sell you at every turn. The quote you get from Longines for a restoration could be a shock. A collector might consider it, and some people feel that cost is no object when it comes to an heirloom. But I just wanted you to understand what you are potentially getting into.

If you are considering selling it (as you initially indicated), then it may not be the path you want to take. I understand that your father told you to repair them and sell them, but that's not generally recommended. One rarely recoups the cost of restoration when one sells. So if you are going to sell it, just sell it. If you are going to keep it, then by all means have it restored.
Edited:
 
6 More Posts...
Sign up or log in to reply...

Similar threads

Asturianucu

Hello to all...and I need some help about a Seamaster vintage

Asturianucu Vintage Omega Watches Help, Discussion and Advice
Asturianucu
Asturianucu
Posts
3
Views
3K
Japenney

I think I found a 1967 ultraman in someone's sock drawer

Japenney Vintage Omega Watches Help, Discussion and Advice
cvalue13
cvalue13
Posts
37
Views
8K