I was actually talking about mechanical parts, like mainsprings and rotor bearings. Not dials.

 

I was talking about originality as a whole. Should it be original only on the outside ?

I personally did the changes - in my listing - especially considering your and many other members opinions here... but to the rest of my questions i only see a surprising tranquility.

 

As of this morning, for those in favor of the "original", i have revised the description and clearly specified the difference between the two.
Should everyone be in piece now, correct ?

 

I'm sorry but that's not at all the way in restoration.

If a fragment of a painting is missing, the fragment will only be restored if the restorer is absolutely sure that it is in accordance with what was there before. On a case by case basis, for example if it is missing a neutral area on the edge or part of a landscape (sky for example), then the restorer can mimic the near sides of the defective or missing area to achieve the unitary image.Otherwise, if a piece is missing a larger and complex fragment (characters, scenes, etc.) then of course the restorer will never "invent" new painting fragments.However, the restorer can integrate the lacunary area in a neutral tone (which dominate that painting area) in order not to create a "gap" into the work unit such as if the defective area would have been left white.
Another accepted case would be if: there are stored images of the original fragment (photographs , reproductions, etc.) - a witness said otherwise -, that can be used in the restoration process.

As for the differentiation of the retouch and original painting, that's a basic condition of the restoration process.Though here we face different approaches, depending on the different school of arts and restoration:
- For the tempera painting there are used two chromatic integration techniques: tratteggio (with dashes) or ritocco (with points) through which the retouch is obvious, for any informed and approved eye, within small distance, and it gets lost if you look further.
- For the oil painting, the above techniques are rarely used, because the retouch is often punctually (in small and many areas), but it is used an imitative technique, but even in this case the condition of readability of chromatic integration is achieved because the restored areas become obvious if you put the work in the UV light.

So you can't consider restoring produces any forgery or alteration or does not take into account the historical aspect or value. THE VALUE OF A HISTORICAL PAINTING WILL NOT AT ALL DEPRECIATE AFTER A RESTORATION.
This is exactly what happens with arts and this is what happens to restored watches ! For those willing to accept, of course...

I do not want to debate more on restoration unless someone has different SCIENTIFIC and SOLID ARGUMENTS...

 

looks like you talk to yourself.......it started with "questions" about your own speedy to spruik your listing; backfired and now you try to steer away into philosophical territory.....maybe the wrong forum ? if you feel (all of the sudden) the need to comment on every 2. thread here, it will still not go away..... earn your reputation . good luck ! achim

 

I'd like to know how somebody can live in a parallel universe where the laws, vocabulary, and definitions of collecting are so different, yet still post on a forum in our world. Must be some weird quantum things going on with ΩF as the commonality.

 

Do we have an "ignore" function here? Never though I would have to ask, but I see in this case it's sorely needed....

 

I think it is time to end this thread at this point - as it will not change anything in his mind...

I like so much the "lecture style" of his statements...
It is not the way to make friends on this forum.

 

Funny you mention that because I quit being a moderator on another forum and discovered my time there was MUCH more enjoyable when I "ignore"d some Invicta fan boys. Unfortunately, no moderator can do that. We need to read all content, which is usually anywhere from enjoyable to okay, but it also means we're subjected to every single one of these posts too. After suffering through so much, you end up needing to reply, you know?

 

I blame the whole thing on the OP......

 

You troublemaker!

 

Did you find your friggin' spectacles?!?!?

 

They were in front of me the whole time. I just couldn't find them without my glasses...

 

Ban him!

I love Invicta! They are Swiss Made!

 

There is a difference between what you do and what a person involved in historical restoration does. They don't peel the canvas out of the frame and start again, you do.
I understand that English is quite possibly your second or third language and maybe we just aren't being clear enough but replacing parts with service dials/hands etc is not a desirable way of restoring a watch. Not to collectors anyway. Finding that original dial (not just authentic but original to that watch series) is the desirable way to restore a watch from a collectors point of view.

 

Just because I am a bored lawyer and feel like extending this fiasco, and really speaking to posterity (or a posterior ) and poor logic as much as anything else....

Another difference is quantity of pieces. There is only one Van Gogh's Starry Night. Will restoration diminish its value? Beats the hell out of me; it doesnt really matter as there is no alternative source for one. On the other hand, there are thousands of vintage Speedmasters. The original ones will fetch more $. The market has spoken on this - repeatedly. A consumer cannot pick between which Starry Night he wants. He can, however, pick which Speedy he wants.

It's all about the market. Price the watch wherever you are happy with it, but don't tell the collector what they should and should not want. That's really not up to you. I recall that the collectors of some watch brands are not as picky when it comes to dial restorations (e.g., Hamilton). Every collectible - every good - plays by its own rules. It just happens that, for the moment, Speedmasters have a different set of rules than Hamiltons, Van Goghs, diapers, petroleum, etc...

 

What ARE the rules for diapers and petroleum these days?

I THOUGHT that was you at Diaper Con last year!