<original> NOT EQUAL <genuine> NOT EQUAL <authentic> NOT EQUAL <oem> NOT EQUAL <omfg>

 

At least we never lost the spirit...

 

Shit man, who'd admit to being a parts collector?

 

This is exactly on point in regard to how the seller is "misrepresenting" the watch that is the subject of this thread. I put "misrepresenation" in quotes only to give the seller the benefit of the doubt....

The dial and bezel on this watch are authentic in that they were manufactured by or on behalf of Omega. Perhaps they were even fitted in Bienne by Omega itself. If the seller had used that word in his listing, not so many people would be up in arms. We see "authentic" used all the time and usually know what weight to give that word. Original, however, means that that those are the parts that were on the watch when it left the factory. The bezel and dial are authentic, but not original.

It really comes down to what the market will bear. Is a watch with all original parts "better" than one with cosmetically-nicer replacements? Who knows? What is clear, however, is that buyers will pay more for the one with the original parts. I try not to bash sellers on the prices they try to get. I feel that the seller's asking price is unrealistic, but I have been known to be wrong before.

The seller would do well to remove the word "original" from his listing. At the very least, it is misleading. At worst, it is an outright lie. Use "authentic" if you must. And remember, a good reputation is the hardest thing to earn and the easiest thing to lose.....

 

You clearly don't get it, or don't want to get it...likely the latter...

You are correct there - you are not fooling anyone here at least!

 

I just threw up all over myself after following this thread to the end..

 

Mainsprings are consumables - IMO it would be a little nuts not to replace a broken mainspring, unless as you said the way it was broken has some historical significance. I replace the mainspring in pretty much every watch I service - the only instance where I don't is if a new one is not available.

And a "period" mainspring for a Speedmaster for example would look the same as one made today. I have never seen a Speedmaster with a blued steel spring - they are always white alloy. And I service tons of these...

If there was a need to replace the barrel or arbor, I would replace it - just like any other part inside a watch. Now realize if you take it to Omega, they will often replace the whole barrel assembly (barrel complete in watchmaking terms) as a matter of course - far cheaper for them to replace the whole unit than it is to open it up, remove the old mainspring, clean the barrel and arbor, inspect it for damage, source whatever parts might be needed, adjust end shake, install new mainspring, lubricate and assemble the barrel....they often will just pull a new barrel from stock and drop it in.

In fact some brands used sealed barrels in the past, and you really have no choice but to replace the entire unit, but Omega was not one of them.

Barrels are not typically items that need replacing though, unless the watch has seen water or the barrel was damaged somehow with a mainspring snapping or something.

Cheers, Al

 

Is your 1963 Austin-Healey 3000 no longer original because it has had new valve guides, pistons and exhaust? Are new tyres OK? Wheel bearings or brake shoes? Just where do you draw the line? It's the very same problem with watches, as they are mechanical beasts and bits wear out.

 

But we're talking about the dial - equivalent to the dashboard. Who would want a modern replacement dash that didn't match the original?

 

There are instances where replacing parts inside a watch would make the watch less desirable, even if the parts used are contemporary to the watch, and not modern replacements. The example that comes to mind are American made pocket watches. Many of these watches have the last 3 digits of the serial number scribed on parts all through the watch - barrel, underside of bridges, underside of balance wheel, etc.

Those who collect these value the serial numbers matching - not everyone does of course, but if you are really into the US made stuff this is important. In those cases I try my best to use the parts again by repairing them if needed - of course there is usually a limit to how far I'll go, and that is what the client is willing to pay.

If I need to send a barrel out to have a sheared off tooth replaced, it's going to cost more than the watch is worth likely, and every collector has their limit...

I've not seen an Omega, or any Swiss watch for that matter, that has similar matching serial numbers on it.

Cheers, Al

 

Dennis, I had wandered off the original topic a bit. I was talking about the mechanical bits of a watch, not the dial, just because that was what Al had got into.

 

Al,

I remember Rolex 7 1/2´´´ movements (used in Prince duo dial models) with numbers below the bridges and plates to match.
And maybe also early Pateks come to mind...

regards
erich

 

Certainly there could be examples out there, but it's rare compared to what you find on American watches...

For example - Illinois:



Elgin:



Rockford:



Waltham:



etc, etc, etc...

Cheers, Al

 

I think Lex4TDI4 etc (man that's a long user name! ) has pretty well summed this up. There is a difference between original and authentic. It's semantic word play but it makes the most sense. I used to show Mustangs and had a 71 coupe and a 73 coupe. There were a select group of owners who used to show in the concourse class and that was really tough. Everything had to be original or you lost marks. I remember a case where an owner had difficulty finding a manual for his car and had put a later ford reproduction manual in the glove compartment. He lost 5 competition points because the manual had a gloss cover and the originals had a matt cover. The manual was an authentic later ford repro but not original.
These concourse competitors or purists are, for the most part, people like us. Originality is what we aim for and is what we will pay good money for.
There was of course, the open modified class in Mustangs and that's where I sat. I had later Ford wheels and a modified engine in both cars. I used modern factory parts in the engines so while the cars are still authentic, they were not original.
I suspect that no matter how much we try to explain this the OP has a particular mindset that isn't going to change. We tried.

 

I have dealt with this seller before. I bought one thing off of him and he sent an email saying that he is an Omega collector, he also buys them and restores them, he also sells Omega parts. He offered me a bunch of stuff outside of ebay. I saw the prices, and didnt even respond.

My take after talking to him was that he puts these watches together from other watches and sells them. I do not think it's original, meaning everything is original from it's creation. To me, it sounded like he sourced parts elsewhere, and he brought it all together.

 

That's wrong. For parts, when needed, the first choice is to go with authorized Omega dealers but some of them are sometimes no longer available so what's then left ? How many here do the same ? How many admitting ? Is that wrong ?... At least watchmakers could clarify this, of course if they are not afraid of being "burned at the stake" for being honest !
Originality is so TABU here if anyone would dare to say something different would immediately be "punished".
At least i can admire the friendly participation...

 

Well, good point ! Thank you.