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Jockywilson1
·There is a ‘rare’ brown nose one on eBay for £450. Could anyone confirm if it’s a service nose or has been over polished?
I don't understand the recent Rolex SS craze/shortage. What am I missing?
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerI’d like to watch that, sadly not available in the UK yet. Don’t really remember the beanie baby craze over here, I guess it was happening more on the other side of the Atlantic?
In documentary, there were people who spoke about being involved in overseas conferences (collector shows) for these, specifically in the UK. I suspect though that like everything else, it was bigger and louder in the US than anywhere else. Some particularly telling video of Beanie Babies that fell out of a truck on a 5 lane freeway near Chicago I think, and people stopping their cars in traffic to pick them up - sums it up pretty neatly for me.
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AAAKK
·
I saw this the other day as well, interesting for sure. Especially the psychology aspects of it, pure frenzy to get their hands on the newest or a retired beanie. Also the rise of the internet coinciding with the mania, or even acting as a catalyst. Early internet chatboards and marketplaces for these things.
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vbrad26
·
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blufinz52
··Hears dead people, not watch rotors.So the documentary is called "Beanie Mania" and it was very interesting.
Beanie Mania (2021) - IMDb
I saw a great many parallels to the watch industry at the moment. One person interviewed was the executive VP of Ty Inc. the company that made Beanie Babies, and one comment he said really caught my attention:
"When your secondary market is so, so, so much larger than the primary market, that’s when a brand has problems."
It was quite interesting to see the way that Ty Inc. protected their brand. They refused licensing deals because they knew that diluting the brand would cause a loss of value, and they were very secretive about production numbers, when models would be discontinued, etc.. They were also very litigious, suing even the collectors who were instrumental in the success of the brand. I saw many things that resembled Rolex in the way the brand operated.
At the height of it collections were worth many hundreds of thousands of dollars, and there were people thinking they could put their kids through school trading in Beanie Babies - some did, but they were the exception. People were being robbed of their collections from home, and truckloads of them were being stolen. One lady offered an authentication service, and she was still doing it. She has done over 125,000 authentications at the time of filming, at between $20 and $25 a pop. Pretty good income on that alone.
The end came quickly - once the first model started to drop in price, it all fell away rapidly.
This should be required viewing for anyone who thinks watches are investments, no matter what the brand is.
Cheers, Al
There are quite a few beanie babies worth quite a lot of money. Just recently a friend told me that in the mid-nineties, he entered a $1 raffle at work for a basket full of beanie babies. He had no use for them, so he placed them in his attic. A couple of months ago he pulled the basket out of the attic and went through all the beanie babies, which were still in their original containers, with tags, etc. In the lot was Hippity, Hoppity and Floppity, together worth ~$15,000! That will get you a new Submariner 👍
https://www.workandmoney.com/s/most-valuable-beanie-babies-e902756fef944af3
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vbrad26
·Wait, these things are still worth money?
I better go tell my mom....
My daughter plays with the Princess Diana bear haha.
I better go tell my mom....
My daughter plays with the Princess Diana bear haha.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerThere are quite a few beanie babies worth quite a lot of money. Just recently a friend told me that in the mid-nineties, he entered a $1 raffle at work for a basket full of beanie babies. He had no use for them, so he placed them in his attic. A couple of months ago he pulled the basket out of the attic and went through all the beanie babies, which were still in their original containers, with tags, etc. In the lot was Hippity, Hoppity and Floppity, together worth ~$15,000! That will get you a new Submariner 👍
https://www.workandmoney.com/s/most-valuable-beanie-babies-e902756fef944af3
The person making the real money is the lady who authenticated all those - I recognize the containers and certificates from the documentary...
Yes, some are still worth money - that really wasn't the point though...
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blufinz52
··Hears dead people, not watch rotors.The person making the real money is the lady who authenticated all those - I recognize the containers and certificates from the documentary...
Yes, some are still worth money - that really wasn't the point though...
I understood your point, as verbose as it was.
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JwRosenthal
·Pshh whatever man. I'm about to go cash in all this Beanie Baby money....
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Dan S
·If this is turning into a thread about price bubbles and silly collectible prices, then I'm in ... that could be a fun topic. Did anyone see this Antiques Roadshow appraisal of Magic the Gathering cards? I thought it was funny that the wife brought her husband's collection in for the appraisal, since she knew nothing about them, but he was obviously a serious collector. I thought the appraiser was going to have a stroke, "Power nine baby, unbelievable."
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerI saw this the other day as well, interesting for sure. Especially the psychology aspects of it, pure frenzy to get their hands on the newest or a retired beanie. Also the rise of the internet coinciding with the mania, or even acting as a catalyst. Early internet chatboards and marketplaces for these things.
It was really curious that such a small group of people kicked this off and created such a frenzy...
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerIf this is turning into a thread about price bubbles and silly collectible prices, then I'm in ... that could be a fun topic. Did anyone see this Antiques Roadshow appraisal of Magic the Gathering cards? I thought it was funny that the wife brought her husband's collection in for the appraisal, since she knew nothing about them, but he was obviously a serious collector. I thought the appraiser was going to have a stroke, "Power nine baby, unbelievable."
I had no idea these cards (or game) even existed, so that was...interesting. What I sometimes like about the AR US version is when they revisit things years later, and update the values. There's accompanying little tunes they play when the value changes from the original estimate.
The tune for increased value is very uplifting sounding. The tune for the value going down I find hilarious...it's not exactly the same, but it has a vibe similar to the old sad trombone sound...
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Dan S
·I had no idea these cards (or game) even existed, so that was...interesting. What I sometimes like about the AR US version is when they revisit things years later, and update the values. There's accompanying little tunes they play when the value changes from the original estimate.
The tune for increased value is very uplifting sounding. The tune for the value going down I find hilarious...it's not exactly the same, but it has a vibe similar to the old sad trombone sound...
I think the AR decreased value sound is a downward scale played on a bassoon, but I can't find it on audio.
Edited:
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pumpernikiel
·coming back for a moment to the luxury/non-luxury brand perception - I think we are forgetting about one practical aspect of branding as we lean towards our own subjective perception of the brand (no matter if it is Rolex, Nike, or whatever else). Once we make it personal by thinking about how we see brand we are already lost, because there is always a risk that someone else is going to have a different position form his/hers perspective. Maybe it will be becasuse of a different disposable income, maybe because of ones interests, etc. The way to escape this is to consider who is actually a target group for that brand and how the brand decides to position itself in the particular target group. If Rolex is producing fixed amount of watches per year, they probably research pretty thoroughly what target group is wide enough for them to go after and which price point is OK. From their point of view it is rather pragmatic and they deffinately want it to be a luxury for a selected target group. If you find it unappealing then you are probably out of that target and that's that. The same with Nike and all the other brands.
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cvalue13
·There’s a brand valuation and strategy consultancy organization called Brand Finance, which each year publishes two rankings: brand valuation and brand strength. They do this across all consumer product sectors, including “apparel” which includes watches. These rankings are fairly well watched by industries, being a bit of annual awards moment, cited and followed by folks like Deloitte, etc.
Here’s 2021’s (most recent) top positions for apparel segment in each of brand value (left) and brand strength (right):
For the “value” ranking, while Nike has topped the rankings for the past 7 years, Rolex is consistently just within or just out of the top 10. In 2021/20, Rolex was 11 (was as high as 8th in 2015). The only other watch manufacturer in the top 50 is Omega, coming in 2021 with #19 on the list - up from #24 in 2020 (it’s highest value rank was 16th in 2015 - a peak year for watch brands apparently).
For purposes of this thread, though, note Rolex’s position in “brand strength.” Rolex has held the top position of any apparel brand since at least 2015. Across the entire apparel category, Rolex is the only company to ever receive the “elite” AAA+ rating. (For comparison purposes. Omega hasn’t been in the top 20 for brand “strength.”)
The reports go into some detail about how brand strength is measured and why it matters to forecasting a brand’s longevity and growth potential, etc., but for present purposes I’ll just post this little infographic of the 3 main measures:
From their report (my emphasis):
“Aside from calculating overall brand value, Brand Finance also determines the relative strength of brands through a balanced scorecard of metrics evaluating marketing investment, stakeholder equity, and business performance. Along with the level of revenues, brand strength is a crucial driver of brand value.”
There are other such consultancy firms and rankings that look at brand strength (distinct from but related to brand value), and the pattern is the same:
Brand Reputation Institute 2021:
The Center For Brand Analysis 2021
When one looks at these analyses, the history and depth of legitimacy of the company, the brands that are alongside Rolex in the perceptions and calculations of professional analysts, two things seem to clarify:
(1) it would be seemingly naive to brush off the current state of Rolex as a company as being in any way deeply related to something like the Beanie Baby “craze,” and - not that certain shared parallels can’t be drawn in some tangential ways, but Rolex is among the top 15 most valuable apparel brands in the world, the top apparel brand by brand strength, and the only apparel brand in the world to sit alongside the likes of Coca Cola in terms of being a blue chip brand.
(2) Achieving this brand strength status as an apparel company is achieved in part by carefully orchestrating both unit numbers and MSRP as relates to brand awareness, brand desirability, etc.
Put differently, Rolex is not in the business of selling commodities in order to drive corporate value. Rolex is in the business of developing brand strength in order to drive brand value, not the other way around.
None of this is to confuse that I’m some sort of Rolex stan, but instead to just express deep skepticism of some of the “it’s just a fad”/“bubble” dismissals. Also, to reemphasize how off base are views of “Rolex would make more money if they just made more watches.”
Here’s 2021’s (most recent) top positions for apparel segment in each of brand value (left) and brand strength (right):
For the “value” ranking, while Nike has topped the rankings for the past 7 years, Rolex is consistently just within or just out of the top 10. In 2021/20, Rolex was 11 (was as high as 8th in 2015). The only other watch manufacturer in the top 50 is Omega, coming in 2021 with #19 on the list - up from #24 in 2020 (it’s highest value rank was 16th in 2015 - a peak year for watch brands apparently).
For purposes of this thread, though, note Rolex’s position in “brand strength.” Rolex has held the top position of any apparel brand since at least 2015. Across the entire apparel category, Rolex is the only company to ever receive the “elite” AAA+ rating. (For comparison purposes. Omega hasn’t been in the top 20 for brand “strength.”)
The reports go into some detail about how brand strength is measured and why it matters to forecasting a brand’s longevity and growth potential, etc., but for present purposes I’ll just post this little infographic of the 3 main measures:
From their report (my emphasis):
“Aside from calculating overall brand value, Brand Finance also determines the relative strength of brands through a balanced scorecard of metrics evaluating marketing investment, stakeholder equity, and business performance. Along with the level of revenues, brand strength is a crucial driver of brand value.”
There are other such consultancy firms and rankings that look at brand strength (distinct from but related to brand value), and the pattern is the same:
Brand Reputation Institute 2021:
The Center For Brand Analysis 2021
When one looks at these analyses, the history and depth of legitimacy of the company, the brands that are alongside Rolex in the perceptions and calculations of professional analysts, two things seem to clarify:
(1) it would be seemingly naive to brush off the current state of Rolex as a company as being in any way deeply related to something like the Beanie Baby “craze,” and - not that certain shared parallels can’t be drawn in some tangential ways, but Rolex is among the top 15 most valuable apparel brands in the world, the top apparel brand by brand strength, and the only apparel brand in the world to sit alongside the likes of Coca Cola in terms of being a blue chip brand.
(2) Achieving this brand strength status as an apparel company is achieved in part by carefully orchestrating both unit numbers and MSRP as relates to brand awareness, brand desirability, etc.
Put differently, Rolex is not in the business of selling commodities in order to drive corporate value. Rolex is in the business of developing brand strength in order to drive brand value, not the other way around.
None of this is to confuse that I’m some sort of Rolex stan, but instead to just express deep skepticism of some of the “it’s just a fad”/“bubble” dismissals. Also, to reemphasize how off base are views of “Rolex would make more money if they just made more watches.”
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Scooterino36
·coming back for a moment to the luxury/non-luxury brand perception - I think we are forgetting about one practical aspect of branding as we lean towards our own subjective perception of the brand (no matter if it is Rolex, Nike, or whatever else). Once we make it personal by thinking about how we see brand we are already lost, because there is always a risk that someone else is going to have a different position form his/hers perspective. Maybe it will be becasuse of a different disposable income, maybe because of ones interests, etc. The way to escape this is to consider who is actually a target group for that brand and how the brand decides to position itself in the particular target group. If Rolex is producing fixed amount of watches per year, they probably research pretty thoroughly what target group is wide enough for them to go after and which price point is OK. From their point of view it is rather pragmatic and they deffinately want it to be a luxury for a selected target group. If you find it unappealing then you are probably out of that target and that's that. The same with Nike and all the other brands.
I took this same view, or at least I think I did, by looking at how the products they make (and customers they serve) are grouped as a market index. However this may be too broad for what you are describing.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerNone of this is to confuse that I’m some sort of Rolex stan, but instead to just express deep skepticism of some of the “it’s just a fad”/“bubble” dismissals. Also, to reemphasize how off base are views of “Rolex would make more money if they just made more watches.”
One question - do you believe the prices currently seen on the secondary market are sustainable long term (say 5 years out)?
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pumpernikiel
·I took this same view, or at least I think I did, by looking at how the products they make (and customers they serve) are grouped as a market index. However this may be too broad for what you are describing.
