How I wish I knew a good and local watchmaker :(

schoolboy · Sep 15, 2020

So this is a bit of a rant.

I have a Seiko skx013 that the bezel was becoming difficult to turn on. I used to have a skx007 that had the same issue, I looked it up online and learned that I could remove the bezel with a knife, remove the bezel gasket/seal, lubricate it with silicone grease and it would be good to go!

I did this on the skx007, it was easy and it taught me a bit about my watch.

Well, with the skx013, the bezel seemed impossible to remove with a knife. So I started looking for a watchmaker that could simply remove the bezel for me and I would take care of the rest.

Where I live, (I don't want to disclose location) there are 3 watchmakers.

Watchmaker #1- Called him, and he basically told me he won't touch anything that isn't a Rolex, Cartier or anything of that level because his tools are specific for luxury watches. This seemed like BS to me, because I figure a good watchmaker can remove a bezel from any watch. But whatever.

Watchmaker #2- Went over to his shop, where he also fixes primarily Rolex watches. He took it to the back and came back with the bezel working. I asked him if it was difficult to remove the bezel to which he replied "I didn't remove it, I just sprayed WD-40 in there and that fixed it." Now I am no watchmaker, but I am a watch afficionado. Everything I have ever read about watches says to not use strong chemicals on watches because that can damage the seals. So, I was angry but said thank you and left to rinse my watch with water ASAP.

Watchmaker #3- I arrived at the shop and explained to him that I can usually remove the bezel with a knife but this one is stuck. He says "I am a professional, I don't need a knife, I have the right tools for it." I feel good about that, he takes it to the back then tells me that he can't remove it because he doesn't have the right size tools.

I come back another day because he says he is going to try a different method. Well guess what, he ends up removing it with a knife like I HAD MENTIONED the first time. I then explain that I can fix the rest at home. He says "why don't we let a professional do the job." So I let him do it.

He kind of fixes it, but the bezel still isn't working like it used to. So I pop off the bezel with a knife (easier now that it has been done before) and I see he didn't apply silicone grease to the bezel gasket/seal, he just applied random grease to the bezel where the bezel click teeth hit the bezel.

I applied the silicone grease and now everything is well. I will do a different write up about that soon.

Oh my gosh....

I just wonder... I am not a watchmaker, but as a hobbyist, I seem a little more informed than 2 of my local watchmakers, and the other guy won't touch a Seiko because he focuses on higher end things.

When I used to be into cars, I was always more into it than the autozone guy or girl. I don't know what it is but I feel like a hobbyist might always be more informed than someone who treats this as just their job. Unless we are talking watchmakers that are super into watchmaking.

Anyway, how I wish I knew a good and local watchmaker 🙁

schoolboy · Sep 15, 2020

Feel free to provide any feedback. I am really disappointed in my local watchmakers. I attended a Horological Society of New York the other day and the presenter Eric Ku, even mentioned the lack of good watchmakers around America. I have a career that I love, and bills to pay. If I didn't I would try to be a watchmaker and just do my absolute best all day every day.

gostang9 · Sep 15, 2020

schoolboy
... Anyway, how I wish I knew a good and local watchmaker 🙁

Trouble with finding an expert (even if only in their own mind) is that they often (usually?) don't take kindly to a lay person telling them how to do things.

Also, the really good experts are highly in demand and would be somewhat 'wasting' their time on a small one-off job such as yours, at least if they got the impression that was the only work you would ever give them.

kip595 · Sep 15, 2020

In some ways I'm lucky for the relatively small area I'm in there is still one elder watchmaker who will work on everything Seikos to Patek, and doesn't get a surprised look when I pull out a 40s WWII issue or a 50s Cyma - he is literally elderly, and has been working on all of them since he was a kid (by kid, I probably mean about ten or so, it's a family shop his dad started).

The downside to this is that he knows he is very much the only game in town if you want it done locally and it's more than a battery change but less than a Rolex overhaul (one jeweler does in-house Rolex work, but that's it. Every single other shop I've been to sends them out) - the point is, he can and does set his own prices. We're friendly, and I don't mind taking things like a Rollie or an early Omega to him, because I can keep an eye on it. But between the prices he sets, and the waitlist (again, only game in town) I've come to rely on him more for just basic checkups on my more basic vintage stuff - even led me to start a thread looking for local-ish watchmakers in my region, which has had nada luck so far.

Unfortunately it does seem a bit of a dying art, and I do mean art because it does seem to take at least a good knack for the skill set, or talent if you prefer.

My own rant over, I can at least advise how I located this gent, who does not keep a website, does not advertise, and is actually independent of the shop he works out of: ask your reputable local antique stores where they get watches and clocks serviced. If it weren't for an ancient couple selling antiques on the opposite side of town, Nate might still be a total unknown to me - and Nate is all anybody's getting, because that wait-list is already too long, dang-it!

Good luck! 😀

schoolboy · Sep 15, 2020

gostang9
Trouble with finding an expert (even if only in their own mind) is that they often (usually?) don't take kindly to a lay person telling them how to do things.

Also, the really good experts are highly in demand and would be somewhat 'wasting' their time on a small one-off job such as yours, at least if they got the impression that was the only work you would ever give them.

I agree with you. That is the impression that I got from watchmaker #1 when he said he only works on high end watches. It sucks though. What if he is really good and is the only one that would've done it right?

However, he would be wasting his time.

schoolboy · Sep 15, 2020

kip595
In some ways I'm lucky for the relatively small area I'm in there is still one elder watchmaker who will work on everything Seikos to Patek... Good luck! 😀

Thanks for sharing that. A waitlist huh? Wow.

Maybe I am just expecting too much from these guys. I was kind of hoping I could call a good one up, get something done within a week or so and go back to enjoying my watch.

Now that I think about it, Rolex and Omega have long turn around times for servicing as well.

Maybe it IS a dying art 🙁

SkunkPrince · Sep 15, 2020

My watchmaker is younger than I am but a CW21 and he takes his job very very seriously. Also an afficionado himself.

You really can't tell who is worth a darn until you ask them to do something. There was a CMW locally but he was an older man and I think he retired. Did a crap job on my father's Croton, but my current watchmaker has it running very well.

ZIELSZIEK · Sep 15, 2020

I found myself another watchmaker after the local guy screwed a watch of mine. He scratched the dial. Nothing expensive though.
The compromise: He's on the other side of my country, will not do color matching and no receipt(that's sort of the country's fault) but where I live everything is basically one big tax evasion.
He takes in everything from Rolex to cheap Seikos and while the turnaround time can get quite long(He also has a contract with all the local jewelers) the job is done excellently and you get a warranty. In fact, what surprised me is the fact that I paid one week after receiving my watch, after I was satisfied.
He also told me, noticing that I am a fairly young guy, that he would love to have an apprentice but no one seems to be interested, so yes I'd say it really is a dying art. Too bad I don't have the patience, maybe in another life, who knows...

Dan S · Sep 15, 2020

Keep looking. It may be helpful to network with other collectors in your area/region via collectors groups, and NAWWC chapter (if you are in the US), RedBar, etc. They may be able to put you in contact with excellent watchmakers who can only be found by word of mouth. That is the only way to find my watchmaker, for example, by referral. He's not interested in walk-in business.

schoolboy · Sep 15, 2020

SkunkPrince
My watchmaker is younger than I am but a CW21 and he takes his job very very seriously. Also an afficionado himself.

You really can't tell who is worth a darn until you ask them to do something. There was a CMW locally but he was an older man and I think he retired. Did a crap job on my father's Croton, but my current watchmaker has it running very well.

What is the difference between cw21 and CMW? Thanks for sharing.

schoolboy · Sep 15, 2020

ZIELSZIEK
I found myself another watchmaker after the local guy screwed a watch of mine. He scratched the dial. Nothing expensive though.
The compromise: He's on the other side of my country, will not do color matching and no receipt(that's sort of the country's fault) but where I live everything is basically one big tax evasion.
He takes in everything from Rolex to cheap Seikos and while the turnaround time can get quite long(He also has a contract with all the local jewelers) the job is done excellently and you get a warranty. In fact, what surprised me is the fact that I paid one week after receiving my watch, after I was satisfied.
He also told me, noticing that I am a fairly young guy, that he would love to have an apprentice but no one seems to be interested, so yes I'd say it really is a dying art. Too bad I don't have the patience, maybe in another life, who knows...

Wow? That's neat that he offered to be your mentor. I feel like I have the patience, just not the time to quit my career and go to school full time again :/

schoolboy · Sep 15, 2020

Dan S
Keep looking. It may be helpful to network with other collectors in your area/region via collectors groups, and NAWWC chapter (if you are in the US), RedBar, etc. They may be able to put you in contact with excellent watchmakers who can only be found by word of mouth. That is the only way to find my watchmaker, for example, by referral. He's not interested in walk-in business.

Interesting.

I'll give that a shot next time I need one!

SkunkPrince · Sep 15, 2020

schoolboy
What is the difference between cw21 and CMW? Thanks for sharing.

Amerrican Watchmaking Institute had two certifications... Certified Watchmaker and Certified Master Watchmaker. As I understand it, there was significant overlap between the two but to get a Certified Master Watchmaker certificate, the candidate had to make a watch mostly from scratch, I thiink not counting the springs.

AWI updated their certifications for the 21st Century, so these new certifications are CW21 and CMW21, respectively.

I don't believe they publish all of the requirements, but I might be wrong.

schoolboy · Sep 15, 2020

SkunkPrince
Amerrican Watchmaking Institute had two certifications... Certified Watchmaker and Certified Master Watchmaker. As I understand it, there was significant overlap between the two but to get a Certified Master Watchmaker certificate, the candidate had to make a watch mostly from scratch, I thiink not counting the springs.

AWI updated their certifications for the 21st Century, so these new certifications are CW21 and CMW21, respectively.

I don't believe they publish all of the requirements, but I might be wrong.

Gosh that's crazy. Thanks for sharing that. It is my understanding that all of these 3 guys are CW21. But man, how do you spray a watch with WD40 ????

Insane.

SkunkPrince · Sep 15, 2020

schoolboy
Gosh that's crazy. Thanks for sharing that. It is my understanding that all of these 3 guys are CW21. But man, how do you spray a watch with WD40 ????

Insane.

Not to mention that marketing aside, WD-40 is not a lubricant.

It is a water displacer (WD). Machinists mounting pulleys on a shaft frequently use WD-40 on the key to lock it in place.

Never ever use WD-40 for anything ever. Sure as sh... heck don't spray it into a lock!

(yeah, it'll make your door hinge stop squeaking... for now)

MRC · Sep 15, 2020

SkunkPrince
.

Never ever use WD-40 for anything ever.

So, you never owned a BMC Mini with the distributor right where the water came through the front grille? Nor a Honda 400/4 that became a 300/3 in the rain then a 200/2?

I don't even use it now to free things up, Plusgas is far superior. If you can find it 😡

Archer · Sep 15, 2020

SkunkPrince
Amerrican Watchmaking Institute had two certifications... Certified Watchmaker and Certified Master Watchmaker. As I understand it, there was significant overlap between the two but to get a Certified Master Watchmaker certificate, the candidate had to make a watch mostly from scratch, I thiink not counting the springs.

AWI updated their certifications for the 21st Century, so these new certifications are CW21 and CMW21, respectively.

I don't believe they publish all of the requirements, but I might be wrong.

Not really the case...first the old certifications CW and CMW aren't really recognized anymore. The way they did this back in the day was that you would send in a watch that you had serviced for evaluation. It doesn't take a genius to realize this is open to a lot of abuse, and the CMW had to make some parts - not a whole watch.

So back in the 2000's when Big Green (Rolex) was working with the AWCI to come up with some sort of certification process, they developed the CW21 program. I think in order to keep your Rolex parts account, you had to complete and pass the CW21 exam by the end of 2010 or so (going from memory, so not 100% sure on the dates). Lots of watchmakers decided to just sign up and take the test, and the failure rate was quite high. The exam included:

Written test (1/2 day)

Service of an ETA 2824-2 powered watch

Service of 3 hand quartz watch

Service of a 7750 based automatic chronograph watch

Micro-mechanical test (re-staffing a balance from an ETA 6497)

The watches you were given for the exam had faults introduced into them that had to be corrected. In total you had 4 days to do all this, and with the written exam taking 1/2 a day, that left 31/2 days. Everything was marked out of 7, and you had to average 5/7 for all the parts of the exam to pass.

The AWCI offered "refresher" courses, and in those courses they would focus on the specific skills required to pass the exam.

The AWCI also offered that students graduating from various watchmaking programs around the country could sit for the exam after they graduated.

The CMW21 was supposed to be the path forward that CW21's would take, but to the best of my knowledge, there never was an official upgrade path offered. So the people who have the CMW21 designation were granted that by the AWCI.

Later the AWCI eliminated the ETA 2824-2 based watch, as it was mostly redundant given that you also had to service the 7750 based watch. The time allowed was reduced accordingly.

At the end of all this, when everyone who wanted to be certified had gone through the process, AWCI's revenue tanked, and they ended up implementing continuous education credits to keep your certification. I know there was a lot of blowback from members over that, and not sure how it all panned out, as I cancelled my membership before all that part happened. The AWCI had essentially shut down, the executive director was let go, and the facility itself is shut down.

The organization is in trouble...the only thing that has kept them alive is the large perpetuation fund they have backing them. Membership is shrinking for a few reasons, and the future is uncertain.

Cheers, Al

Archer · Sep 15, 2020

schoolboy
Feel free to provide any feedback. I am really disappointed in my local watchmakers. I attended a Horological Society of New York the other day and the presenter Eric Ku, even mentioned the lack of good watchmakers around America. I have a career that I love, and bills to pay. If I didn't I would try to be a watchmaker and just do my absolute best all day every day.

I have a career, I am a watchmaker, I have bills to pay, and I do my absolute best everyday.

Watchmaking is in high demand, and watchmakers are retiring/dying off all the time. They are not being replaced at anywhere near the speed that they are being lost. This problem is only going to get worse as time goes by.

If anything is going to kill of vintage watch collecting, it will be the lack of watchmakers who can work on these watches. Yet people on these and other forums often complain about paying prices that allow these watchmakers to make a living wage...

schoolboy · Sep 15, 2020

SkunkPrince
Not to mention that marketing aside, WD-40 is not a lubricant.

It is a water displacer (WD). Machinists mounting pulleys on a shaft frequently use WD-40 on the key to lock it in place.

Never ever use WD-40 for anything ever. Sure as sh... heck don't spray it into a lock!

(yeah, it'll make your door hinge stop squeaking... for now)

I didn't know all these details, but to be told that the CW21 guy sprayed my watch with it was disappointing. Now I feel I shouldn't trust him ever again. But am not sure, as I think he is the only Rolex certified guy in town, but I guess when the time comes I could just send my watch straight to Dallas RSC.

Drawarms · Sep 15, 2020

where r u located

How I wish I knew a good and local watchmaker :(

schoolboy

schoolboy

gostang9

kip595

schoolboy

schoolboy

SkunkPrince

ZIELSZIEK

Dan S

schoolboy

schoolboy

schoolboy

SkunkPrince

schoolboy

SkunkPrince

MRC

Archer

Archer

schoolboy

Drawarms

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