On the website for "Moonwatch Only" they state that "Please note that some of the 105.012-66 cases of La Centrale Boites have had this particularity removed. It is likely that the ledges were considered unattractive so that they were filed away in one or several polishing operations." Since the 105.012 HF and CB are valued the same how would a partially removed caseband affect value of a otherwise very good sample? BR Peter
"Otherwise good"..but lacking a distinctiv feature. What is your actual question? If it's gone it's gone. Buy a air cooled Porsche with a water cooling..see what you ask?
The traditional CB case lines on the front of the lugs aren't the only way of distinguishing between the two models. The sides of the case and underside of the lugs are also different (several threads on this). As such, it's relatively easy to tell when a CB case has been altered (even if the case back is lost/swapped) and it will have a very significant affect on value.
Or more. On a top end watch, the difference could be as much as $5k or more. Pristine or not, some of us wouldn’t even consider a CB without the facets.
I would contend that if the facet is removed, even partially, then the case is no longer very good. Value should decrease. I mean, a polished case would diminish the value of any vintage Speedmaster, but the CB case's main distinctive trait are those facets, so it would harm value more than similar polishing on other examples. If you run across a watch that has a CB caseback, no facets, but the case is very good, then you probably have watch that is put together - i.e. a HF caseband and a CB caseback. Value should also decrease in that example. And since we're showing off CBs, here's mine:
Facets are assets. An over polished watch is an over polished watch and its value is going to suffer no matter what reference (or even make) it might be.
The facets are the most important part of the CB case as they are very visible from the front when not polished. When you say a 105.012-HF and CB are valued the same, are you referring to the price chart on speedmaster101? For me, I see the facets as a remarkable feature and would pay more. However, the quantum is subjective.
I feel that the CB vs. HF question is a matter of personal taste. I personally think the facets are cool and distinctive, but some people say they prefer the HF case. In my limited experience, there isn't a big difference in value, all things being equal. But if the case is made by CB and the facets are gone, that's a damaged case, and the value is greatly diminished.
I've read in this article that only one third of the 105.012-66 cases were produced by HF, the rest is CB. If true, that would mean that the 105.102-66 HF is the rarer version and this should arguably be reflected in value?
I think the overall principle is that unpolished cases are more desirable over polished cases and the CB facets (or the absence thereof) are a very good indication of whether the case has been polished. It is slightly harder to tell if a HF case has been polished, to my untrained eyes at least. This is especially true when judging a watch purely based on photos where people are more likely to jump on a polished CB case. In summary, a CB case with facets adds credibility to an unpolished watch.
I wouldn't value a HF or CB higher but unpolished or just slightly is in fact the point. Completely rounded edges and loss of shape/texture can look very sad compared to a halfway or fully intact case with lines and textures. And it's very easy to spot once you have seen an intact case, don't worry
Consider this hypothetical question. Two Speedmasters laying side by side. Both are 105.012-66. One HF, one CB. Both of equal grade (good or collector). Pricing is identical (per Speedmaster 101). Which one will you choose to buy? Any guesses how the numbers/responses will be split?
No, I can't guess. Personally I would choose the HF, simply because I consider the CB facets a sloppy execution of what was expected of them. But of course I understand that the CB cases are in the minority of all lyre lug cases out there - though (as I pointed out previously) probably not of the -66 cases.
you see way more CB 66, than HF so i would prefer the hf Choclate ,tropical, browny dials are simply damaged dial out of any production spec and would be thrown away in QA
...hence a sloppy execution of what was expected of ‘them’ And yet they cost stupid money (compared to a CB vs HF for the one or so years that CB were making cases)