Did the "Poor Man Heuer's" also come with Heuer dials? Specifically, the 73623? Ive seen Heuer stamped dials all over the internet but am trying to ascertain if they are real and not redials. The watch this dial is attached to has a "Heuer-Leonidas SA" stamped case-back. However, no markings on the movement that I can see. Thanks OF!

 

The "poor man's Heuer" models were models produced by Heuer for other companies and do not feature the Heuer name/logo on the dials. However, Heuer also produced their own "economy" line similar to the Carrera, but that just featured the Heuer logo on the dial, in a simpler case. This appears to be one of those models, though I don't personally know if it's correct.

For specific information on this particular watch, you'll have better luck reaching out to the folks on the OnTheDash vintage Heuer forum, chronocentric.com/forums/heuer

 

Dial is not original Heuer, i mean reprint

GIGI

 

Movement is also incorrect. Heuer would never put a stock movement with zero engravings in a watch.

 

Now to be fair I don't know about other models CF, but I've seen quite a number of otherwise legitimate* Heuer BUND with no engravings on the movement bridge. Including my own, which is an early(sub 600 serial) civilian example, so not one the would have gone through the military(or Sinn) replaced parts servicing chain and with wear and tear one would expect from a watch of that vintage.

EDIT example from On The Dash.



*not so easy with those considering how many NOS ones have come to market...

 

Appreciate all the responses guys. I found another one of these going up for auction next month. This one too has no engravings on the movement. Hmmmm.

https://www.henrys.de/index.php?pc=catalog&spc=pos&id=25348151www.henrys.de

 

Both of these look like the Zodiac/Clebar/Hamilton "poor man's" that someone redialed with a (poorly) printed Heuer shield. I can't explain the caseback, but I don't think these are the "economy" Heuer's either. I feel like most of those I've seen are two register and not pandas/reverse pandas.

*corrected below

 

well, i know these triple register "economy" heuers exist from OTD reference pages. ive linked them below for anyone interested. ive found a few examples of Heuer dial 73623s at relatively major auction houses. from what ive found, none of them are heuer stamped movements but that doesnt necessarily mean that the economy heuers didnt have stamped movements. i personally dont believe this is a redial.



http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Chronographs/60s_Chronographs/70.Reference_73623/

http://www.onthedash.com/docs/EconomyReferenceTable.html

 

I stand corrected on the dial/case of the 73623. Of all the time I've spent on OTD, I had not seen the Heuer signed ones before. The shield printing on the OTD example also appears a bit more crude, so I think you're right. My apologies.

 

https://shop.bulangandsons.com/heuer-7721-nt-chronograph-valjoux-7730.html

Take a look at this example - this is what I would expect to find under the hood. Bunds aside (which are often highly suspicious in their own right and also weren't sold publicly), I have not seen any legitimate Heuer chrono from the mid 70's and prior that was not engraved. Heuer was a reputable brand and the only ones that typically threw unmarked movements into the watch were the lesser-known / second-tier brands like Yema or Lip.

 

Another example here: http://forums.watchuseek.com/f11/id-vintage-heuer-chrono-293221.html

I'm having a tough time finding a three-register poor man's Carrera, but would be extremely surprised if Heuer ever threw an unmarked movement into a case, regardless of price point. Seems more plausible to me that this watch was cobbled together with a stock movement and spare case and dial.

 

I'd agree there alright CF. Total minefield of NOS 40-50 year old watches...

Actually on this point, they were. Though they weren't advertised 1550 SG's could be sourced special order through dealers at the time. Rarely though as before the interwebs, jewellers wouldn't have them, no advertising, so few would even know they existed. I've seen a few with original owner provenance down the years that were "civilian" examples(all small "T", small Heuer logo, no (3H) and no issue stampings). My own example is one such.

 

Interesting, I actually never knew that. I assumed that the non-military ones had been "parted" together after-the-fact (as many current "NOS" examples are).

 

Oh certainly CF, there are a lot of parted together Bunds. It's almost impossible to tell them apart from military maintained examples that were regularly refreshed to NOS levels by Sinn(among others). Never mind the refreshed for market example after the great Bund sell off through Sinn. Murky indeed. Those wanting to make a decent return don't want the "worn" examples as that's not what the market has come to expect(unusually) and the market wants the military "I flew Starfighters you know" fantasy bit.* When I got mine it was well over a third cheaper than most because it didn't have the Bund/NATO stamps or the (3H) and looked like it had been beaten up by the patina mob. Even though it has a three digit serial so one of the first thousand produced. Nope, folks wanted the desk pilot ones. Result for me at the time though.

Like I say civvies were rare, but I've even seen a couple of NOS examples with the original Heuer paper case back sticker. They had no visibility in the general market of the time(and I suspect their contract with the Bund likely restricted their sale to civvies. In Germany anyway). I read of one German chap in the 70's who was military, but ground crew, so wasn't issued the Heuer. He admired the pilot's issued Heuers and went into a local jewellers who stocked the brand and ordered one. His also had no stampings on the movement. I'd reckon of the ones I've seen the Heuer stamped movements were if anything the minority.

Part of the allure of Heuer which adds to their mystique and is a royal pain in the *ahem*, is that they were well below par as far as their own history and records are concerned. It has been Heuer collectors and enthusiasts who have come to the fore on that score and taken up the slack(in some ways Rolex can be kinda similar, where "unknown" models come up). If say On The Dash never existed, we'd be boned if we had to rely on TAG for such info.

They have nowhere close to the archives of Omega/Longines/Patek/Zenith/IWC et al when it comes to models, production runs and serial numbers. Yes they were a reputable mid tier brand**, but a remarkably slapdash at times one too. It would not surprise me at all if they didn't always engrave movements back then. For a start it's easy too forget in these days of nutty, near OCD collectors like us that original buyers back then for the most part didn't give a care for such minutiae. Never mind the oft parlous state of Heuer's finances and sales figures, where such minutiae could understandably and rightfully be not such a priority.

Please don't get me wrong. I have always admired Heuer and have had a fair number go through my hands(wrists) down the years, but I also see their issues. Sadly I flipped my Heuers before the mad values hit. DOH! Though never lost on the deals as I got most of them for well under 400 quid(showing my age...) and still have my Bund to show for it(was always my fave Heuer TBH).






*most of them were as likely to have seen the inside of a tank, or a transport plane, or a comms wagon, rather than a 1960's Jet fighter.

** they were for the most part , especially in their most popular and currently valued period (fantastic)designers and assemblers rather than a "great house" in horological terms. As far as chrono movements go Longines for example would blow the doors off them.

 

that 7721 is quite interesting. the watch that sparked my interest is not the Henry's watch I linked above, though it too has an unsigned movement. The pictures from my original post are from a watch being auctioned off by Watches of Knightsbridge. You can see pictures if you go to their website. Unsigned movement. However, this 77423 has a signed movement like the 7721 Bazamu linked above. Is Watches of Knightsbridge that scrupulous to put a franken into their auction? Regardless, dont think I'll be bidding on this one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HEUER-ref-7...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network

 

I'd email Stein and see what he says.