Hello all,

Thought I'd post some pictures of my latest project. A couple of weeks ago I stumbled upon a post from a year ago on another forum where someone was asking for information on a Borgel watch, in pieces, with a Helvetia cal 81 movement. The movement had been identified but had been dated to the 1940s and the case to WW1 so it was dismissed as a marriage.

From movement markings I knew it dated from about 1930 and that Helvetia were still using Borgel cases sometimes then even though they had brought out their own waterproof case in 1929. The very blurry hallmark also looked to be from 1930. The Wilderness catalogue of 1931 illustrates one as well as Helvetia's new waterproof watch.



I let him know that his watch was correct and also sent a DM in the hope he still had the watch and would be interested in selling. He still had the pieces though had to do some digging, we did a deal and I received it yesterday.

All the parts appear to be there and although the watch is filthy the movement isn't too bad and it runs.



The screw ring was still in the case and the movement seemed to have been removed without the case screws being undone.



The hands are mismatched and almost certainly replacements. There also seems to be an extra case screw and I know the brass coloured bar is for the pin set I'm not sure what the black folded tube is? The crown, what's left of it, needs changing. Is there anything special about these crowns? It needs to cover the end of the tube but not down too far as to not be able to be pulled away from the screw keeping the stem assembly in place.



The dial has also seen better days, cracked and dirty.



Here is an example from a couple of years of years earlier with a non luminous dial so possibly one of the hands could be right if the dial was supplied without luminous paint originally.



The reason the pin set on the watch above, and on the illustration, is below the stem and not above is because at this time, 1928, Helvetia were using adapted FHF movements for their shock protected watches, they introduced the cal 81 in 1929 and it must have meant the position of the pin setting mechanism needed moving.

So quite a job but I think it's salvageable. It's interesting to me as it is an early example of Helvetia producing shock and water protected watches.

Thanks. Carl.

 

Nice project and your dial doesn't look bad at all. I like it.

 

I've made some progress already, dial and case have cleaned up nicely.





I've put the movement, screw ring and case back together properly and the pin set and stem all work.

I've got some hands I'm going to try but I think they may be a bit short.

 

Wow that dial came out spectacular!

 

Yes, these enamel dials tend to come up quite well.

Making good progress. Hands are a little short as I thought but 130/80 hands are not easy to find. I have a crown on the way that might fit, not exactly the correct type but might do the job.

 

I think this is as far as I can go until I get a Borgel crown. This one works but is not really the 'look' I'm after!

It's not come up too bad considering what I had to start with. I even attempted painting the numerals myself for the first time, they're OK as long as you don't look too closely!

The strap may be an issue as the normal fixed bar glue down ones may not fit well because of the curved bars. The illustration from the catalogue shows a pull through strap but the gap between the bars and the case is only about 1.5mm so I think I'll struggle to find a leather one that fits. I might try a Perlon as a sort of woven strap substitute.



Thanks. Carl.

 

I was having a chat with David Boettcher at Vintage Watch Straps and we came to the conclusion that it was a sewn on leather strap in the illustration rather than a pull through, it's just the curved bars that make it look that way as they make the strap sit next to the case.

So I've added a glue together strap I had and I don't think it looks too bad. Just need to find that crown.

 

I have a question about the painted numerals, i seen some painted and some unpainted. I’m guessing that both were available, also radium numerals. By the way it looks great, I have plans for a couple of early cushions I have. Should be in my hands in a few days

 

Hi, yes most watches like this were available with luminous or non luminous numerals and hands. If you look at the advert at the top of the thread you'll see there was an additional cost of 2 shillings for luminous dials.

Watches with skeleton hands and outline numerals like this probably originally had luminous paint, the non-luminous versions would have had solid numerals and hands. Confusion is sometimes caused because when the luminous paint lost it's luminosity it was sometimes removed and standard hands added to replace the skeleton ones as I think has happened with this watch. This is why the hands were solid and the dial had outlined numerals when I got it. It is probably also why the hands were mismatched. I have tried to restore it to how it would have looked if the paint had not been removed and the hands changed but with standard paint in place of aged luminous paint.

 

Thanks for the reply, is the reason I try to find original ads to see the original watch, sometimes they tell you caliber and other case option. I know at least one hand on my omega is wrong. Awesome work by the way.

 

Great ads.

Did you see this thread on some new Helvetia ads I just found:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/1930s-helvetia-adverts.119890/

 

Well I've said it before.....

https://omegaforums.net/threads/1929-helvetia-waterproof-watches-are-like-buses.109951/

.....and I'll say it again; Helvetia watches are like buses. There cannot be many of these about at all, but the week after I get this one another turns up on eBay. Non-luminous version, serial number only 13 away from the first. Well, I needed a crown so now it's on it's way to me to be reunited with it's brother, they'll have to share the one crown between them for the time being! Sellers pictures below.







What's interesting is the number under the serial is 13 below the one in the other watch, the same difference as the serial, 11 and 24, so it must be the numbering of this batch of cases.

Thanks. Carl.

 

Save as many as you can, I remember when you could find VW bugs for almost free. Well not anymore, lots of undervalued watch brands out there.

 

Send me some measurements, I might be able to find a period correct replacement.

 

Thanks very much Jim. When I receive the other example I'll get some exact measurements and let you know.

 

Received the second watch yesterday. Here it is as received.



And after a dial, case and crystal clean.



It runs nicely but unfortunately someone has soldered the collar that keeps the stem in place instead of keeping the original screw fitting which means I can't easily move the crown over to the other watch to see how it would look. I guess i'm just going to have to keep on looking for a crown so they have one each.

 

Hi Jim,

The tap of the thread is 1.3mm, the outside diameter of the pipe from the case is 3.6mm and the inside is 2.6mm so the crown pipe should be no bigger than 2.6mm with at least a 1mm gap around it. Ideally the pipe from the crown should be the same length or shorter than the outside of the crown too so the crown covers the top of the pipe when attached. The size of the crown on the new watch is 5.25mm but obviously that measurement is not vital.

Bit of a tall order I know but thanks for taking the time to look.

Regards.

Carl

 

Great job, question how did you get that so white. I just got a “riviera “ looks like a cyma. Which I’m not planning on doing much to it, but some cleaning and a strap.

 

Sorry, no success.
Could not get the right combination of stem/pipe/tube dimensions.

 

I knew it was a bit of a tall order. Thanks again for going to the trouble to look for me, most kind of you. One will turn up at some point!