Hi OF,

I've recently purchased a watch that I returned to the seller in the US. The seller won't accept return at the beginning so I had to open a case through ebay, long story short, ebay told me to send the item back and my money will be returned upon delivery of the item with signature.

Please see below for the tracking details, please note that I chose 6 days delivery method with signature on delivery.


I found it a bit weird when the item was stuck in the facility since the 18th so I kept emailing ebay and gave them an update on what's happening. They kept telling me to wait, and on the 22nd, they said there's a movement on the parcel and my money will be refunded within 3 days once the seller has received the item.

Up until yesterday, I didn't receive any refund nor any confirmation from ebay or the seller so I sent another message asking why my money hasn't been refunded yet. And this what they replied to me today,

"I've reviewed all the details of the case, and we have closed the case in the seller's favor without a refund because the tracking shows delivered on July 22, 2016 but there is no signature confirmation. Since this item is over $750.00, signature confirmation is required for valid proof of delivery..
Once a case has been closed by you or eBay, it cannot be reopened. If you have to open a case in the future, please keep in mind the time frame and procedures."

What does this even mean? I've returned the watch to the seller but they now rejected my refund eventhough they know that the parcel has been delivered? I don't even know how it was "delivered and left with individual" without signature if the shipping method is 'signature on delivery'.

What should I do at this point now to get my money refunded because the case has been closed? Can I still make a claim through PayPal? I will call eBay AU during the business hours as it's already past that here in Sydney, but I just wanted to make sure I know what I'm doing this time as this is the first time that I have to returned a watch like this.


Thanks heaps

Andre

 

To me that sounds like a load of bullshit on eBays part. If this happened to me I'd first call the shipping company and find out what the process of delivery was, perhaps a slim chance the driver took a signature. If you've gone for "signature on delivery" then find out why there was no signature taken. If there's insurance with the courier then you could chase up that route.

Then I'd be on the phone to PayPal. They are fairly slow but in my past experiences they have usually sided with the buyer.

If you've paid with a credit card via PayPal then could try speaking to the card company as a long shot. However, I believe they will wash their hands of the situation and say you have to speak to PayPal who is the payment intermediary.

If all this fails then I'd contact the seller direct, as you know they have received the watch. If they have any morals they'd send you a refund or even post the watch back to you.

Not a nice situation. Good luck, I hope you can get it resolved.

 

The first call is to the shipper for delivering without signature. They are liable to whatever amount you insured the package for....
Then Ebay again, then paypal.

The problem is legally you cannot prove the watch was delivered to the original owner, or to anyone specifically since there is no signature.

In the case of my building a similar case (involving watch tools worth a couple of hundred) got solved when the cc camera on the lobby showed the delivery being left at lobby instead of given to us with signature required and then some douche picking it up. Since I never received it the seller had to sort things out in his end with the shipping company as my responsibility was to pay for product, and theirs to deliver to me

 

I was just on the phone with eBay US for more than half an hour and they was not very helpful at all. All they said is that 'the seller said he did not receive the item' and 'it is not their responsibility to do double-check with shipping company etc'. Definitely a loads of bullshit on eBay parts.

Unfortunately I didn't have any insurance for this item, because I was pretty upset with the seller since he lied to me at the beginning, rude and wasn't very helpful since the beginning. So I kinda just went and post the watch back without even thinking anything else. I should've known that this might happen, but then again I used a signature on delivery service like eBay has asked so I thought that the parcel will really need to be 'signed' before it was marked 'delivered'!

Will call AU Post in the morning, as well as PayPal. Would PayPal will still be able to help with this since they're separate entities now with eBay?

 

I would have thought they would be more helpful now that they have separated from eBay. Hopefully impartial, unbiased and willing to take the opposite stance to eBay.

 

yeah, the post is your only option but unfortunately you won't be able to prove the value of your item so the rerun will pretty much be up to their insurance company. If any.

It is not Ebay's fault. they deal with these issues all day long. In your case you are legit, but think in terms of a "possible" fraud that follows your scenario where you haven't shipped the right item to the right person and the seller never got anything back and the buyer wants to keep the watch and get the refund.....it happens. So the only option for them is to have that signature, without it they cannot force a refund.

Paypal will probably have the same issue. If you cannot prove the watch was returned and received they probably can't issue a refund. Paypal is MUCH more generous than eBay as they tend to side with the buyer and give (I think) 6 month guarantee, which is ridiculous. How much they can do here; i don't know.

 

First, let me say that you should have not returned the watch with no insurance.

The seller MAY have been a scammer who received the package back and is just shafting you. But there is an EQUAL possibility that the package was received by some guy who was not the seller and ran away with it. In any case, there is no Ebay or Paypal protection for you.

The final detail is not your fault - if you shipped via Australian government post, they partner with USPS. And USPS regularly delivers signature confirmation packages WITHOUT signature. Should have stuck with UPS or Fedex.

If you paypal'ed with a credit card as a funding source, I think you should start calling your CC company.

Does seller have lots of Ebay feedback?

 

Very sorry you are having to go through this. I am sure it is quite frustrating as a seller. I'm on the other side of the fence right now on a watch purchase, as the watch has gone missing in the country of origin's mail system. So after 7+ weeks, it is good to know PayPal will be there to help protect me. The seller insured the watch (supposedly), and hopefully did so for the sale price + extra to cover fees/ shipping so there is no net loss by either party.

 

The other option is to watch the seller's future auctions like a hawk and see if it comes up again for sale. They may be that stupid. Of course you will need to have saved a copy of the original auction, and hope that it shows details like the serial number or something identifiable.

 

Definitely my bad regarding the shit shipping method as well as the insurance, but I actually thought that at least the seller really has to sign the parcel in order to receive it. Even our cheapest shipping method here in AU will make sure that the item will be signed if it's a signature on delivery option.

So I just got off from a call with AU Post and they'll contact USPS for the signature, as they're not able to see anything from their end apart from what I can see as well. But with this seller that's trying to scam me, I don't even think he signed for anything. He must've just received it and avoid signing it somehow. So there's a possibility that USPS can't even provide the actual signature. What should I do if it reaches to that point?

ps. the seller has a good feedback in ebay

 

If it ends up with no signature and ebay can't help you, try to contact paypal. What was wrong with the watch when you got it, maybe buyer protection can help you out?

Edit : a threat to write up what happened and he scammed you for 700 as feed back might make him reconsider if he is well established, how many transactions does he have?

 

A seller doesn't have good feedback for nothing, if it's honest feedback. If it is, you are probably not being scammed. It's not like the seller forced you to ship via a method that doesn't guarantee a signature.

Sometimes bad luck happens. You get something you think was something else, you return it and it gets lost. And sadly you forgot to insure it or make sure that it was signature delivered. Seller "avoiding" signing for a package is sort of far-fetched. How is seller supposed to do this? Sleight of hand or hypnosis? Too many things beyond seller's control needed to happen for seller to plan a scam. Sometimes the easiest answers are the correct answers.

Like I said before, talk to your credit card company if you funded your payment via CC. If not, sorry you are probably SOL.

 

That is just not fair. It would be slanderous as it is all word of mouth and honestly, if the seller instead of the buyer had posted here arguing his case we may be siding with him. Like:

" I have xxx positive rating on eBay I've never had an issue. A buyer received a watch and started dating it was not right because xyz, all things discussed prior to. Either way he bow wants a refund and says he has sent me the watch but I haven't received anything and he has no signature on his papers because he says the post office messed up. He is trying to scam me into returning the money and keeping the watch...help!!" And so on.

The only recourse I see here if signature is not produced is a case against the shipping. The original shipper in AUS that you paid to ship with signature confirmation. Provide the documentation of your purchase and request for refund, proove that is the value of the parcel and hope they will do the right thing.

IMO you're now on the "good will" realm. You're screwed and have to accept the price of this lesson, and hope that someone will decide to accept responsibility....

 

Hopefully you were nice to the seller. Someone once returned a Speedy to me that was neither insured or signature required.. and USPS lost the package. I finally got it a few weeks later but tracking never marked it as delivered. Buyer could have been SOL and no one would have known. But refunded him anyway. I might have thought twice about it if buyer was an @$$.

So yeah, good will..

 

It's only slander if it's not true. If you sent a package to the correct address and it's status is delivered, and the seller keeps the watch something is fishy. Signature or not, I trust the " delivered " more then a signature, since I know I never use my signature since it never turns out well on the machine so I just throw down a big "X". If the watch was delivered to a house and not an apartment building or something odds are the seller has the watch and not some random person.

But as you mentioned being nice and hoping the seller does the right thing is a better idea. I would only use this as a last resort if I had expended all my other options and I was sure the seller got the watch and it was not lost in transit.

Edit: you wouldn't need to explicitly state in feedback that you have been scammed but outline the facts; you got it and sometimes was wrong, sent it back for refund, delivered status but does not acknowledge it and let future buyers think about that, I for one would like to know such information about a seller if factual.

 

You cant prove seller received the returned watch and kept it. Which is why signatures are important and why both Paypal and Ebay require it for high value transactions.

 

Without proof It's here say. That's for the seller and for the buyer. One of them gets screwed, or in some cases shit happens as stated above, and they're both victims so to speak. To take one side at.face value is not noble, it's naive. ( And I'm not accusing the OP here just being pragmatic)

Signature required is signature required, there is no legal.... " Somewhere lose to.but not quite..."

Those are the rules, you want to play play, you don't.... Don't

 

And no... It's slander if you can't prove it. That's just the way it is.

 

You may want to think about this post. As somebody that is looking at buying, I woukd want to know the person I am dealing with is completely honest. I understand you may want to and even if I was an arse and you kept the money, you would know.
Allan

 

I use eBay & Paypal for my onlone business multiple times per day. Deliveries go astray because people are human and make mistakes occasionally. In my experience the postal services in Australia and elswhere are the worst at ignoring 'Signature Required" status on parcels, hell, even registered documents.

Recent post on a fourm of a watch delivered to a guy with a similar name in the same town in a different street hunting down the correct addressee and handing over the parcel.

Not all people are that honest, so just because the post office shows it as delivered is no guarantee that it was delivered to the right person

That is why signatures are important - UPS or FedEx or DHL definitely worth looking into in the future.

Have you got the communication on file that you have had with the seller?

Have you communicated with him since this lost item and subsequent eBay decision?

eBay and PayPal are separate.

I strongly suggest that you approach PayPal and outline what happened.

In a couple of cases they have refunded me and my customer over irreconcilable disputes that eBay ruled in my favour as the Seller.

Otherwise, since you used the post AND had no insurance, as has been mentioned, then you probably have just learned an expensive lesson.

Sorry to say it, but unless someone in the chain takes pity on you, then you are S.O.L.