Help with Early 30L's

Lovely 8888!

The UK also has some country specific examples due to tariff avoidance (9ct Dennison cases). I’ve never seen this for Spain, however, which is where all 4 of these examples were shipped.

ABC, one of the newspapers of record in Spain, has digitized their entire historical archive. It’s a fantastic resource for watch advertisements.

11/20/1955
- The first ad for Longines’ new 30mm movement


02/05/1956


03/10/1956


06/09/1956
- The first time it’s referred to as the 30L


10/06/1957
- The first Flagship ad
- The first labeled as a chronometer


Possibly most interesting, all of the early advertisements show what we consider the standard 30L movement. This means the distinction between movements with Breguet overcoils and flat balance springs existed from the very beginning of production (debunking my speculation that this might have taken place later).

This does make the few examples like mine and those on 30L.com more puzzling though. Our examples do predate (by serial number) the 30Ls that were submitted by Longines to the Neuchâtel Observatory trials in 1956 (the first time the 30L was submitted for chronometer certification to my knowledge). Why sell an example with an upgraded balance spring, which is the hallmark of later chronometers, if you had standard balance springs in production?

I agree with you on that. Unless Longines gives us more information, or I can find a source from the time period, there is just no way to know why these exist.

Interestingly, I’ve searched newspaper archives in Italy, Switzerland and the US and cannot find any similar advertisements to those above. I would have thought the ad campaign was directed by Longines and that I would find additional examples.

My searches have turned up a few more things I plan to explore in more detail. The first is a book by Charles Thommen titled Les Dignitaires De L'horlogerie. La Merveilleuse Et Tragique Épopée Des Derniers Régleurs De Précision Qui Participaient Au Concours De L'observatioire Chronométrique 1923-1967. I have no idea if it is going to provide any more detail about the 30L specifically, but it sounds fascinating. Unfortunately, it was only published once (in 1981) by a publisher in Switzerland. I have a copy headed my direction, so I guess I’m going to struggle trying to translate that. Wish me luck!

The second is that the archives of Frank Vaucher, the chief precision timer at Longines, are housed at the Jura Archive and Economic Research Centre (CEJARE). Interestingly, his first year as a precision timer was 1956, the first year the 30L was submitted to Neuchâtel. Apparently, before he died in 2007, Mr. Vaucher was working on a catalogue of Longines movements. I don’t know if any of those records are digitized, or if they are accessible to researchers abroad. More information is at the links below.

http://www.fhs.swiss/eng/2014_11_27_chronometrier_cejare.html

https://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~vaucher/Genealogy/Documents/FrankVaucher.html

Serial Num: 9693340
Reference: 6691
Invoice Date: 10/21/55
Importer: Girod


Serial Num: 9700246
Reference: 6692
Invoice Date: 11/11/55
Importer: Girod


Serial Num: 9700387
Reference: 6691
Invoice Date: 3/26/56
Importer: Girod



Serial Num: 9700231
Reference: 6691
Invoice Date: 7/20/56
Importer: Girod



Besides my example (Serial 9693860) the above are 4 additional 30Ls with chronometer like movements. All were sent to Girod in Spain in late 1955 or early 1956. There is also an example that was sold by Kaplans in 2014 (Serial 9700526) which I don’t have a movement shot of but am virtually certain would have the same traits as it matches my watch in every way.

Taking these additional examples into account, I don’t believe these are just random occurrences:

1. Same importer / same country / same reference / same timeframe - if these were leftover parts or movements, similar examples should be popping up in other locations and in other references but there are none that I’ve found.

2. There are watches from roughly the same time period that do not have the truncated regulator arm. This reaffirms the period advertising that I posted above, which shows the elongated regulator arm and suggests the difference between movements existed from the beginning of production.




Normally, this would lead me to speculate these were special orders from Girod, but I have some issues with that theory as well:

1. The invoice dates are spread out over more than 6 months. If this was a special order, I would have thought they would be delivered in a single batch.

2. I cannot find any advertising from Girod regarding the reference

The Girod family were originally Swiss; the company founder was born in Pontenet. His grandson, who ran the company during this time period, went to university in Zurich. Girod even maintained an office in Chaux-de-Fonds.

The watch world is a pretty small place today. I’d imagine it was even more so in the 1950’s. Part of me wonders if they didn’t ask Longines to put a few “special” movements in a couple of orders.

Well, I believe this is the first time they’ve confirmed this. I know Havi from 30L had asked previously with no success.



The archives confirm at least the six examples I have found were fitted with Breguet overcoils. It also confirms that 30Ls from this period were shipped with flat coils, meaning the variation existed from the beginning of production. And, to my knowledge, all of the examples pre-date the first certified 30L chronometers.

Another lovely cal. 30l member of ref. 669X, Girod, Spain, chronometer parts, # 9 700 291

Thank you for your message and the information provided.
Further to your request, we are pleased to provide the information contained in Longines' handwritten registers.
The original serial number 9'700'291 identifies a wristwatch in 18ct gold bearing the reference 6693. It is fitted with a Longines manually wound mechanical movement, caliber 30L. It was invoiced on 11 November 1955 to the company Girod, which was at that time our agent for Spain.
For your eas reference, please find attached an extract from the book by Patrick Linder "At the heart of an industrial vocation - Longines watch movements (1832 - 2009)", with the pages dedicated to the caliber 30L.
We trust that we have responded satisfactorily to your request and remain at your entire disposal for any additional information.

Best regards,

Fatima Boulanouar
Brand Heritage





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@georgev, can you send the pages the Heritage Department included regarding the 30L?

Longines has confirmed that the Breguet overcoil was phased out by ~1959.

Thanks @georgev, I wonder what source he has cited as Longines Journal.

+ 1, same quality, from ref. 6691 in gold, Girod, invoiced March, 19, 1956, # 9 699 668. A question - in golden vintage watches of 50's - what are numerals and hands made of ?