Help understanding 200M Pre-Bonds

Hi Guys,

Newbie here looking for some info on the old pre-bond quartz divers. I've read all I could find online and understand the sizes, movements, bracelets, dials, hands, etc, but the one thing no one has explained is the differences between the Ref numbers on the case backs. Omega didn't assign Ref #s for the heck of it, so there must be some specific differences between say a full size 396.1051 and a 396.1061......but I can't find any info on it. Seems the cases are identical and each could have the same dial, bezel, movement, hands, etc.........so why the different Ref #s.......or am I missing something?

thanks,
bob

Hi padders,
Thanks for the info! I think you're right.........if they change the caseback, and the caseback is part of the case, then the case Ref # has to change! That makes so much sense that I'm a bit embarrassed to have asked the question. Amazing that no one else has ever pointed that out in all the "Everything you ever wanted to know about Pre-Bond 200M's" articles online. Thanks for your help!

;O)
bob

Hi padders,
I do have one......or I should say I will........it's a 1061 and on it's way. It should be here on either Thurs or Friday. I'll be glad to post some pics of it for you then. Spoiler alert though...it's not pristine. I wanted a beater I could wear anytime/anywhere, as all my other Omegas are just too nice to wear, and I'm really tough on watches.

;O)

Hi padders,

Well, she finally arrived and it's sort of a mixed bag. The watch works fine, no issues there, and keeps good time. The biggest issues are someone lightly polished the watch case (top and sides) and the bracelet (on the upper side only), the bezel insert has seen better days (but will stay original) and the bracelet itself. Luckily they didn't go nuts and polish the crap out of it, so restoring the brushed finish will be easy on the bracelet, and I've already restored most of the original finish. The watch case will take more effort, and I'll get back to that in a bit. The crystal is scratch free (always a good thing) and the only lume that still glows at all is on the lollipop second hand, so it's probably newer. Lume patina on the hands and dial match pretty closely, although the camera makes them seem a little more different, but the hands are not obviously newer. The dial itself looks good, with no issues. The bezel was frozen, but with a little penetrating lube I got it to rotate, but it's still hard to turn without the use of a rag to grab it. I plan to remove the bezel to clean all the crap out and get it functioning again, and will be asking what the best way to accomplish that will be shortly. It also needs to come off so I can properly restore the brushed finish to the top of the watch case. The lume pip in the bezel was mostly gone, and my ultrasonic cleaner did a fine job of removing what was left. So a re-lume of the pip is probably in my future too, but not my highest priority right now, as I need to study how best to replicate the dial patina.

The bracelet, besides the polishing is a bit of a mess. Looks like a couple tubes are missing, and some of the pins are a little bent. I just spent the better part of an hour straightening those pins, but I've ordered a dozen new ones and a dozen and a half new tubes. The biggest issue is one of the tapered links is missing! I didn't notice it at first because it's not obvious until you lay the bracelet flat and can see the change in outer taper. I'm missing the second link from the end link that connects to the watch case. I did a quick search online and came up empty, but even if I did find one I'm sure it would be a fortune. So I'll keep looking, and I might have better luck finding an actual end link for the 1465/452 bracelet and just have to grind it down a bit to become the second link.

I was so anxious to see what I had that I forgot to take pics of the watch assembled. But I plan on putting it back together today to keep my lack of memory from screwing it up until the bracelet parts arrive. I'll add a pick of the bracelet section with the missing link. From what I can tell the Polaris bracelet used shorter end links, at least the ones I see for sale on Ebay are shorter. The one I need is approximately 20.46mm tapering to 19.28mm approximately (LOL), while the end links for Polaris bracelets start at about 19 and change and taper from there. They also attach to the watch case with a different center link that uses a spring bar and not a thru pin and tube, but that doesn't affect the outer end link. So I'll keep searching and maybe I'll get lucky. It's not noticeable on wrist, but being anal..........it will drive me crazy knowing it's missing that link.

Ok, I've probably bored you to tears, so I'll shut up. I'll post a new thread on how best to remove the bezel without screwing it up after I do a search on here to see if it's been covered. No one likes a newbie asking the same questions that have been asked (and answered) a million times. I wouldn't want to wear out my welcome so soon! Thanks again for you help and interest!

regards,
bob

Sorry, that was a pretty crappy pic, now that I look at it. Try this one. It should be easier to see where the second link is missing.

;O)

I love the 200m pre bond. I have 10 of them, 4 are automatic full size and the others are quartz full size and mid size. The bracelet will be an issue to fix, you could go to Omega and ask them if they have it. I have one that is in mint condition and the thing i didn't know was that the center links had a mirror finish and the width links were brushed. Most of the time you cannot see the mirror polish anymore on those links,

Hi b,

Well.......that explains why they're so darn expensive.......cuz you have them all!!! My bracelet is a bummer, but like I said....it's not noticeable on wrist, and if I ever sold it I'd fully disclose the issue if I haven't corrected it by then. And in terms of correcting it, I'll wear it for awhile as-is and if it drives me completely nuts there's another way to skin this cat by simply modifying the taper on the previous link.

I find what you said about the polished center links interesting. I've spent some time reseaching these 200M's before I took the plunge, and have to say in all that I've read and the watches I've looked at.......including many ridiculously priced "perfect" ones, I've never heard anyone speak of polished center links. Neither has anyone who's restored these that I've come across ever mentioned such a thing. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'll leave that to those more experienced on here to do so, if in fact you are. It's just a bit odd that no where has anyone mentioned the words 'polished center links' when describing a 1455 or 1465 bracelet, except the gold versions. I'm curious to hear what others have to say on the subject. Regardless, it would be an interesting look and I'm sure many would like to see it. I don't even think any Polaris model came with polished center links. You might have one unique bracelet there! Next time you pull it out of storage post some pics and get one with the bracelet number on the clasp. I love learning about these things!! Thanks for your reply!

regards,
bob

Hi padders,

I am curious to see what a 200M looks like with the polished center links though. It would sure be different. I hope bazelot posts some pics!!

;O)

i will post pics

There it is

I LIKE IT! It spices up what's normally a pretty boring bracelet. Thanks for sharing!!

;O)

Another aspect to look at for these nice watches is the quartz movement ... some of the movements that did equipped the pre-bond seamaster were of the thermo-compensated type ... thus HAQ .. these are unfortunately almost impossible to find nowadays ...

Hi m,

Yes, I read about the 1441 thermo-compensated movements......very cool. I wouldn't say they're impossible to find, you just have to use a little ingenuity and look at the other brands that used them as well. I think like most things in high end watches you're splitting hairs when you're talking increased accuracy like that. Will it really impact your life if your watch is a few seconds off each day instead of only one second off.......I don't think so. But I guess it makes good ad copy and sells watches. As an engineer I'm a big fan of tuning fork watches......incredible technology that can be found today for cheap. Gotta luv that hummmm..........

;O)

They are great quartz movements, I have 3 full size pre bonds with the 1441 movement but i have yet to see the difference. They are super accurate but you always have to change the date on a bi monthly basis anyway so you can always readjust the time when you change the date. Plus i never wear the same watch long enough to notice if it is losing time or not. I love the 1441 movement because of the authenticity. PLenty of those quartz pre bond had the movement swapped with a generic one over the years.

@W30bob
Ofcourse one does not need that kind of accuracy ... even a chronometer certifications is not needed .. but what I do consider here is the technology permitting that kind of accuracy .. I do admire these realizations .. and to have another brand with the same king of movement is not the same .. and it's the same for the f300Hz watches .. marvelous ! I got myself a Certina DS2 Precidrive only to check if over one year the shifting was under 10sec .. I did observe during one year and sure enough the watch did the job .. If it would not be utterly unreasonable, I would love to have a Citizen Ec-drive 0100 ... Accuracy 1sec/year !!

Hi m,

When you say "to have another brand with the same kind of movement is not the same" I'm not sure I understand you. I take that to mean if two companies, say Omega and Certina used the same movement it still wouldn't be the same watch. And I agree with that. Packaging makes a difference! But understanding how the whole "Swiss watch" thing works...........I have to say I do look at vintage "premium" watches very differently now that I know what went on behind the scenes. Knowing nothing about "good" Swiss watches I always assumed each company made all their own parts, including movements. Finding out that the way the Swiss put togehter watches, by buying all the parts from other Swiss specialty manufacturers.....and that each company was buying from those same manufacturers and simply assembling those same parts into their own brand of watch was sort of a bummer. It makes perfect sense, but was kind of like finding out Santa wasn't real. Doesn't mean I don't love Santa and what he represents......but it's still not the same. And to be clear I'm not talking about newer watches......I have no interest in them and don't know how they're made. I know Rolex now makes everything in their watches in-house, maybe the other high end brands are similar or doing more of that.....I just don't know. But vintage high end Swiss watches were made with mostly common parts assembled differently. And maybe "common parts" is the wrong wording, because some were restricted to only certain manufacturers (I'm talking cases designed specifically for each brand) but they were made with parts that were many times available to other watch manufacturers. Like all the ETA movements, bracelets, straps, and even cases in some instances. So to me, having an Omega watch with a 1441 movement in it is the same as having a Longines with a L174.2, or any watch with an ETA 255.561, as the first two are just using rebadged ETA 255.561 movements, not Omega or Longines made movements. But as I said earlier.......looks (packaging) does matter, so asthetically the watches look a lot different, and that's what sells them. Just like different cars using the same engine and transmission, but different bodies. But from an engineering standpoint......to me they're the same watches. Cars involve a lot more components, so it's not exactly the same.....but you know what I'm saying. I don't mean to say that between two different brand watches with the same movment that one is "better" than the other, that's purely personal preference, but mechanically to me they're the same. I was a bit surprised to learn how the Swiss made watches, but after knowing the history and why they did it....it makes perfect sense. It's just like Swiss manufacturers acting as the general contractor who made your house. If he does his job right and sources the right people to do the job......he never has to lift a finger or get dirty and you get a great house. And even if your house is identical inside to your neighbors, adding a dormer or or different trim and siding will make it look entirely different. Swiss watch manufacturers back in the day were just like that. And now that I collect these little buggers it makes sourcing parts a LOT easier! Thanks for your reply..........this stuff is really interesting!!

regards,
bob