Help Needed - Odd Configuration Polerouter cal. 215 Patent Pending

CalgaryJim · Dec 25, 2024

I bought this cal. 215 Patent Pending Polerouter last month from a Private Seller here. I looked at the reference table on universalgenevepolerouter.com and the closest reference I came up with is the 20357 but that one has "microrotor" on the dial. My watch movement dial does not say microrotor on it though.

I've asked asked some well known people with expertise on Polerouter configurations and they are not aware of this calibre with the dial I have. I was asked for the serial number but unfortunately there isn't one visible, either on the outer caseback or between the lugs.

Is anyone here familiar with my configuration?

CalgaryJim · Dec 27, 2024

Any guesses as to what’s going on? I think it’s the wrong dial for this movement.

bgrisso · Dec 28, 2024

I'm not super familiar with this level of detail on polerouters, I think you need @CafeRacer or @Mazoue

CalgaryJim · Dec 28, 2024

bgrisso
I'm not super familiar with this level of detail on polerouters, I think you need @CafeRacer or @Mazoue

Thank you, they are two of the people I contacted. They were as helpful as they could be given that I don't know what the serial number is.

theyer · Feb 9, 2025

Hi Jim, I actually have the same watch different color dial and have often wondered the same. Mine says automatic at the bottom and is a caliber 215.

Passover · Feb 10, 2025

theyer
Hi Jim, I actually have the same watch different color dial and have often wondered the same. Mine says automatic at the bottom and is a caliber 215.

Hi,
there seem to be a mismatch between hands (too long, no lume) and the dial (lume).
This leads to the guess that this is not an original condition watch, may be the dial has be redone?
The crosshair in this area seems to be uneven and its quite thick in general.
Do you have the reference number?

CalgaryJim · Feb 10, 2025

theyer
Hi Jim, I actually have the same watch different color dial and have often wondered the same. Mine says automatic at the bottom and is a caliber 215.

Interesting that yours is the same. Thanks for posting a photo.

CalgaryJim · Feb 10, 2025

Passover
Hi,
there seem to be a mismatch between hands (too long, no lume) and the dial (lume).
This leads to the guess that this is not an original condition watch, may be the dial has be redone?
The crosshair in this area seems to be uneven and its quite thick in general.
Do you have the reference number?

Good spotting of these details. What do you think about the logo? It looks lopsided on the top.

If this watch and mine are redials why wouldn't they add the word microrotor too, unless the redials were taken from another watch with no micro rotor?

bgrisso · Feb 10, 2025

You would really need more information on the second watch, including a photo of the mvmt to confirm the caliber, to see if it's a "patent pending", and you would need the case reference and case serial, and even then, because the dial has been redone, relumed, and the hands are not matching, it's probably not a good data point to research the first watch. (Although it would be interesting just out of curiousity to see if the second watch fits the pattern for other known automatic only/microtor movement references).

Regarding the OP watch, this should be resolvable by people very familiar with polerouters? We already know there are microtor references that only say automatic on the dial, but you have to put all the variables together (case size, case materials, caliber, date/no date, applied logo type, etc) and that should narrow it down very quickly?

I'm not an expert on PR but I just had a quick glance at the tables on Adams reference website and I don't see a single reference listed for a cal 215 with an automatic only dial???

CalgaryJim · Feb 10, 2025

bgrisso
Regarding the OP watch, this should be resolvable by people very familiar with polerouters? We already know there are microtor references that only say automatic on the dial, but you have to put all the variables together (case size, case materials, caliber, date/no date, applied logo type, etc) and that should narrow it down very quickly?

I'm not an expert on PR but I just had a quick glance at the tables on Adams reference website and I don't see a single reference listed for a cal 215 with an automatic only dial???

Thank you for your ideas.

I did check the reference website you refer to, my watch without microrotor on the dial does not appear there. I also checked with the experts we are familiar with here, they could not find a reference for my watch either and said it looks like a redial.

When I then asked the seller if he knew the reference number, he said he didn't know, that his expertise was more focused on Chronographs.

I'm making it a goal to become very knowledgeable about Polerouters so this doesn't happen to me again, and that I should never assume someone is an expert about what they are selling.

bgrisso · Feb 10, 2025

CalgaryJim
Thank you for your ideas.

I did check the reference website you refer to, my watch without microrotor on the dial does not appear there. I also checked with the experts we are familiar with here, they could not find a reference for my watch either and said it looks like a redial.

When I then asked the seller if he knew the reference number, he said he didn't know, that his expertise was more focused on Chronographs.

I'm making it a goal to become very knowledgeable about Polerouters so this doesn't happen to me again, and that I should never assume someone is an expert about what they are selling.

I can't tell from the photos if the dial is original or not, would need much better pics. And I know far less than the people you spoke with already. One question I would have is if dial from a different movement (such as a bumper or a different microtor) would even fit on a cal 215 ? Again, that's a level of detail beyond me. Another question I might have for the PR experts is does the mvmt appear to match the case? In other words based on the size of the case and the caseback type there's only certain number of refs it can be, so what are the options for that case type which fits a cal 215? Once you can zero in on the correct matches between the case and the movement, perhaps you can work backwards from there on what type of dial to expect? Just a thought.

CalgaryJim · Feb 10, 2025

bgrisso
I can't tell from the photos if the dial is original or not, would need much better pics. And I know far less than the people you spoke with already. One question I would have is if dial from a different movement (such as a bumper or a different microtor) would even fit on a cal 215 ? Again, that's a level of detail beyond me. Another question I might have for the PR experts is does the mvmt appear to match the case? In other words based on the size of the case and the caseback type there's only certain number of refs it can be, so what are the options for that case type which fits a cal 215? Once you can zero in on the correct matches between the case and the movement, perhaps you can work backwards from there on what type of dial to expect? Just a thought.

Thanks again. I’ll take a look at the resources again that I have, including @Mazoue’s Polerouter book I recently purchased but I don’t know if I’ll be able to confirm the case type question you’ve asked. Worth a try by me though.

theyer · Feb 12, 2025

Passover
Hi,
there seem to be a mismatch between hands (too long, no lume) and the dial (lume).
This leads to the guess that this is not an original condition watch, may be the dial has be redone?
The crosshair in this area seems to be uneven and its quite thick in general.
Do you have the reference number?

I have to have to check. I bought this 15 years ago. I had it serviced around that time and was told it was cal. 215 but have always wondered. I need to see it my self. When I do I’ll post. Thank you for the feedback.

Help Needed - Odd Configuration Polerouter cal. 215 Patent Pending

CalgaryJim

CalgaryJim

bgrisso

CalgaryJim

theyer

Passover

CalgaryJim

CalgaryJim

bgrisso

CalgaryJim

bgrisso

CalgaryJim

theyer

Similar threads

Vintage Yema Superman 1963, 1. Gen., Patent Pending, 990ft

[Advice Needed] Thinking of Buying this Polerouter 215-2

Certina DS "Patent pending" Cal. 25-451

Certina DS Diver Dial 5601.012 "Patent Pending"

Certina DS "Patent pending" Cal. 25-36

1st gen Certina DS Pie Pan Patent Pending