Dear Omega Forum Members,

I am a newbee and just got excited about the Omega Speedmaster Pre-Moon and Moon Watches (reference 105.012 or 145.022 models) in terms of looks and the story behind it. I would therefore like to buy one but am a real beginner, both with respect to buying vintage watches and to Omega watches.

It would be much appreciated to get some help with the following to not select the wrong model and overpay for my first vintage Omega:

- I have seen that the 1968 pre-moon models with a 321 caliber compared to a 1969 model with a 861 caliber sell for roughly $ 1.500 more - is it worth to pay that difference from a collection and value preservation point of view (I read in one threat as a recommendation for collection watches: rather wait and pay more but instead buy the right year and in the right condition)? Both have a nice story, i.e. the 1968 / 321 models being used for Apollo 11 and the 1970 / 861 for the Apollo 13 missions if I am correct. Don't know the numbers of watches that have been produced, which I understadn make a significant difference in collector's value
- The other trade-off, at least on most models I have seen, is that you can get 1969/1970 models in slightly better conditions than the 1965 to 1968 models
- If you go for a 321 caliber does it make a difference which year exactly you pick between 1965 and 1968 (I understand that this was the last year that the caliber 321 was used, which was the original caliber used for the pre-moon waches)?
- How much more worth is it to have box and paper for a Speedmaster? Ist it worth c. $ 1000, which is roughtly the price differential I have seen.

Watches I am looking at:

Cheaper alternative from 1970 with papers:
http://www.chrono24.com/en/omega/sp...71&dosearch=true&urlSubpath=/search/index.htm


1967 model Without papers: http://www.chrono24.com/en/omega/moonwatch--id2134091.htm?id=2134091&picnum=3&tab=details

1968 model With papers: http://www.chrono24.com/en/omega/sp...id1630274.htm?id=1630274&picnum=6&tab=details
=> seems very expensive as I have seen a model at Kaplans in Sweden being sold for c. 3100 Eur but without Box and Papers

Feedback from people that have experience with collecting Speedmaster watches would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Thomas

 

I think you found 3 watches that are overpriced. Here are some websites that will help you gain some speedmaster knowledge:
http://chronomaddox.com/
The late chuck maddox was a chronograph guru. Chrnomaddox is full of information.

http://www.speedmaster-mission.net/
http://www.omega-addict.com/index.html
http://www.omega-fanatic.com/

As far as prices are concerned, you can do a search on ebay for completed listings and of course for current listings and get a feel for pricing. You can also search the Antiquoroum database for past sales. http://catalog.antiquorum.com/catalog.html

As far as I know, the watches that were actually worn on the moon were the 105.012 and the 145.012. These are both c321 watches.


You want to have a systematic way to evaluate the watches you find and are interested in. The more original the watch the more valuable so you have to be able to identify replacement/modern parts on your vintage watch.

These are the key components:
I. case
II. bezel
III. dial
iv. hands
V. caseback
VI. movement.
VII. bracelet
The 145.022-69 you are looking at has a modern replacement bezel. Here is a discussion about bezels (http://forums.watchuseek.com/f20/om...fessional-bezel-guide-668494-post4872212.html). The hands on that watch don't show any age/patina, certainly not as much as the hour markers on the dial.
The 145.012 looks to be a good example and it has the 1035 bracelet. Still I think it's overpriced by lot. The 1035 bracelet is quite flimsy and if worn it has stretch links that well, stretch. They do however look nice tucked away in a drawer.
The second 145.012 looks good except the bezel, though worn, is possibly not original to the watch. The price is way too high.
I wouldn't pull the trigger on any of the three at those prices.

 

Nice discussion of the 2998. Props to the Google toolbar that translated most of that for me.

 

Man, if I cared about Speedmasters I'd bookmark and/or print that translated page.

 

A good read, thanks to google translate.

No intention Dennis, ever?

 

Never say never, but then again I've never met a manual wind Speedmaster that I liked on my wrist. Some of the 70's automatics are okay, and I do like a few of the Valjoux based models too.

 

Didn't you play one on TV? Or at least stay in a Holiday Inn Express?

 

I love how all our threads stay on topic!

 

Richard, thanks a lot for your feedback. This is very helpful and much appreciated! I'll just hold my horses on the watch (it just felt tempting and save for newbee as it came with box and papers but obviously always makes it more expensive) and do some reading up on it first. I'll let you guys know what my conclusion and purchase decision will be...

And for the others: interesting discussion

Cheers,

Thomas

 

Thread hi-jacking is part of our charm.

 

I don't place a lot of value on the "box and papers" that this watch comes with. You can get a box on ebay if you really want one. The papers it comes with aren't the original sales receipt but "Omega Museum" papers. By this I assume that they are referring to an Extract of the Archives which you can obtain for 83₣ from Omega. Doing a quick search of completed sales on ebay there were 8 145.022-69s that showed up. For 7 of them the average price was $2000.71 +/-$441.86. One sold for $5100 and I'm trying to get a hold of that buyer because I'd like to sell him/her some of my stuff. Even counting that one the ave. is $2388.13 +/-$1169.64.